CurlTalk

I officially give up

I officially give up trying to figure my hair out. I'm looking for opinions on whether or not to go through with a Deva cut tomorrow, considering my present "hair crisis". Any feedback any of you have would be very welcomed.

Two days ago, following a monthly application of Clairol Natural Instinct's semi-permanent dye job (to cover gray), my hair drastically changed. It went from my usual uniform corkscrews with waves mixed in, to semi-curly but mostly wavy hair with very little shape to it, poofy and soft in parts.

So I thought, "Aha! I'm over-conditioned!" so I clarified it and added make moderate amounts of conditioner (Suave Naturals Eternal Sunshine, cause it's hydrating, minus protein). Wet and styled it, using some Suave moose. It turned out screwy again. Worse.

So I thought, "Right! I forgot that the coloring treatment may have stripped me of protein." So I used K-pak Reconstructor, left it on 15 min.s and rinsed. Followed it with Devacurl Heaven in Hair so that the protein didn't make my hair too hard. It didn't want to dry. It looked pretty normal wet, but when the strands became dry, they were flyaway - part curl, part cotton. Awful.

I can't keep wetting it and doing things to it now because each time it's stripping my hair of natural oil. Tomorrow morning is my appointment to get the Devacut and everything I've done has clearly resulted in failure.

Facts: Due to an operation, I might be going through early menopause (so I wonder if this could be related to hormones). Gray hair - I wonder if the texture of my gray could be suddenly interfering with my typical curl pattern, but that doesn't seem logical.

My question: Would you bother going to get a dry cut when your curl pattern is clearly off? I'm at a loss. Sorry this is so long and thank you in advance!

Comments

  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 11,970Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Have you had a cut with this stylist before? I'm not sure whether a Deva cut would be the best idea or not, but a good stylist might be able to diagnose what is going on with your hair and what it needs.

    I hope you connect with someone who is savvy about hair! Please post back and let us know the outcome. Best of luck. :love2:
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Hey Curlypearl, thanks for caring. Different stylist, same salon. Part of me just wants to go and ask him to hack it all off. Hopefully there's someone here who has heard of this before, gone through it, or has some clue about what this could be.

    ETA: Hair in general has normal porosity, but gray hairs are high porosity.
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    I'll bump this, since tomorrow morning is the appointment and I'd really love some feedback before then.
  • poemaXXpoemaXX Posts: 456Registered Users
    Man, that sucks! I wouldn't get a haircut if my curls weren't behaving as usual – unless I had plans to BC. I'm so sorry your hair is being an enigma. I'd wait to get the cut.
    || 3b; normal porosity; fine/normal texture || CG since Feb 2010 || SD/dandruff prone

    Current Routine BAQ henna 1/month Leave-in OH Hair Dew Cheapie Conditioner Tresemme Naturals Moisturizing
    Old Stand-bys extra-virgin coconut oil Protein AO GPB; Moisture AO HR Style AOMMJ – Kept for troubleshooting.
    Waiting to try extra-wide curlformers SD treatment H&S Clinical Strength

  • raindearraindear Posts: 356Registered Users
    Personally, I would go ahead with the appointment, to get some of the damage cut off and have a professional give me some advice and assistance. Yes, both hormones and gray hair can have an effect on your curls. Gray hair is typically coarser (though my mother went from medium to baby fine when she went gray), and hormonal changes can be unpredictable. Hope you get good advice and assistance.
    Be Happy!

    Type:2b/3ab?
    Texture:Medium/fine
    Porosity:Normal
    Elasticity:Normal

    Experimenting with too many products to name here. All this great info keeps my head spinning. :happy6:
  • MissDarceiMissDarcei Posts: 193Registered Users
    Oh no I love your hair! :( Maybe you should give it some more time? If it's only been a couple of days I wouldn't do anything too drastic that you might regret.
    3c Hair
    Fine Strands, High Density, Low Porosity
    CG since August 2011
    :love4:Loving my hair!!!:love4:
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users
    How frustrating!

    I can say I got a deva cut when my hair was over-conditioned and then when I got my hair back to normal the cut was not so great.

    But having said this, I you go in and tell the stylist what your issues are, maybe show him pics of your hair on a normal day, he may be able to advise you.


    Couple things - my friend uses Clairol, and I suggested she mix some CNPF in the color bottle. She has been doing that ever since and had better color retention and her curls behaved more.

    Have you tried any oils? (if your hair likes them, that is)

    The idea of grays and hormones effecting your hair are both good thoughts, but the suddenness of it following the color makes me think thats less likely.

    Maybe call the stylist and see if you can come in for a consult and then reschedule the actual cut for later?

    GL!!
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Wow, thank you ALL so much for your support!! And thanks so much MissDarcei for the kind compliment. You and your hair are gorgeous :D

    I didn't have a chance to read most of the feedback above until after my cut. As you said, Raindeer, it was a good idea to cut off some of my possibly damaged hair, plus I figured as long as the cut was well-shaped and symmetrical, I could live with it. I just had to ask myself if I'm willing to get a cut that ends up looking shorter once my curls spring up more. And since I'm a little sick of my length, I was willing to take that risk.

    It went well. The cut looks good so far. We'll see how it looks after I wash it again! It took him 5 hours (he was super chatty, but really really nice) :shock:

    The stylist wasn't sure the cause of my curl loss, but I tend to agree with you Jas, that the timing of the sudden change following the dye, makes the dye look like the most likely culprit. What is CNPF? I was thinking of doing a protein treatment before my next color touchup, or applying coconut oil on my hair first. Not sure yet - don't want the oil to seal out any of the color. A final thought: I'm not going to wash my hair for about a week (to give it a break). Then I'll try an ACV rinse before conditioning it.

    Thanks again everyone! It really meant a lot to receive your feedback :D
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users
    Sorry, that's Colorful Neutral Protein Filler from Sally's. It's a clear liquid protein that is meant for use in doing color. I use it for several things, tho - add it to condish, LI, FSG, protein treatments, refresher spray, etc. But my hair LOVES protein. If your hair does not you may want to stick to adding it to color, or putting it in your hair before coloring, if you prefer.

    Glad the cut went well!!
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Thanks Jas. I'll buy the CNPF once I run out of my Joico K-pak Reconstructor, which is protein-based.

    At first I thought I was dealing with a protein overload, but now it's looking like I was over-conditioned (plus possibly changed from hormones or whatever) and lacking protein. I say that because I noticed a slight improvement to my curl pattern after using the K-pak treatment the night before my hair appointment.

    Off-topic, but: I think all the answers to my question on this thread have been valuable not just because they are educational, but because one day some other curly girl in crisis might stumble on this thread and take note of some of her options. It took a search of old threads and all your feedback for me to realize I should try protein ;)
  • JenniKSJenniKS Posts: 203Registered Users
    Jas76 wrote: »
    Sorry, that's Colorful Neutral Protein Filler from Sally's. It's a clear liquid protein that is meant for use in doing color. I use it for several things, tho - add it to condish, LI, FSG, protein treatments, refresher spray, etc. But my hair LOVES protein. If your hair does not you may want to stick to adding it to color, or putting it in your hair before coloring, if you prefer.

    Glad the cut went well!!

    Didn't know this, but going to try it next time. My last color didn't turn out very well, definitely changed my curls.
    Jenn- 3A
    My weapons of choice: KCCC, BRHG, Jessicurl: GLS, Gelabration, CC, AG: Re:coil, hard gel, mousse gel, shampoo bars, dairy whip, Curl keeper, KCKT, KBB milk, HETT, AVG, Honey

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users
    Just so everyone is clear, the CNPF is a liquid (looks like water, really) that you would add to things. (I have used it straight onto my hair before, though.). I mix it with condish, or put some in a spray bottle with some water and condish for a refresher, or mix some with a little gel, etc.

    Somewhat OT here, but I'm soon going to try Ion Effective Care treatment from Sally's - I hear it is a very moisturizing protein treatment!
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • NejNej Posts: 2,444Registered Users
    A good haircut can make ALL the difference. I say git'er'done
    anigif_enhanced-buzz-2027-1364839025-19.gif
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Thanks Nej. I got er done ;) The cut looks good so far. I still have to see what happens after I wash my hair tomorrow. My stylist did everything he could to coax my hair back to super-curldom, including adding "curl boosting" stylers and massaging sections of it with his hands (yup, he did that.). He did everything short of sticking one of my fingers in an electrical socket. Hopefully tomorrow when I wash everything out, the curl won't revert back to half-hearted waves and patches of soft fuzz. I'll probably do another protein treatment and/or an ACV rinse unless someone here convinces me that will lead to imminent disaster.

    If my hair doesn't spring back to life tomorrow, I'll be really disappointed ... But it's hair, not the loss of a job or a limb, so I guess i'll cope.
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Well, there was reasonable improvement after the K-pak and ACV rinse. Curls are somewhat springy again. It dried more quickly. Still not recovered but moving in the right direction. The cut needed some minor correction but looks reasonably good.

    Another update after next wash.

    PS I'm looking into switching from chem dye to something natural, like amla to give my gray hair deep golden highlights, plus cassia to guard against loosening my curls. Need to research to see if this can be done w/out henna because I no longer want reddish highlights.
  • poemaXXpoemaXX Posts: 456Registered Users
    Korkscrew wrote: »
    PS I'm looking into switching from chem dye to something natural, like amla to give my gray hair deep golden highlights, plus cassia to guard against loosening my curls. Need to research to see if this can be done w/out henna because I no longer want reddish highlights.

    I'd be really interested to hear how that turns out! I just used up the last of my henna and put amla in this mix, because I've too grown tired of the red. I hadn't thought of using cassia! :)
    || 3b; normal porosity; fine/normal texture || CG since Feb 2010 || SD/dandruff prone

    Current Routine BAQ henna 1/month Leave-in OH Hair Dew Cheapie Conditioner Tresemme Naturals Moisturizing
    Old Stand-bys extra-virgin coconut oil Protein AO GPB; Moisture AO HR Style AOMMJ – Kept for troubleshooting.
    Waiting to try extra-wide curlformers SD treatment H&S Clinical Strength

  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    I just started a thread about this in the color forum so maybe you and I can stay tuned :)
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Okay. I spoke with a sales rep at Mehandi.com because no one responded to my thread on the NC color forum. That thread is called "Amla & Cassia" and I will leave a detailed post there about all I learned.
  • poemaXXpoemaXX Posts: 456Registered Users
    Korkscrew wrote: »
    Okay. I spoke with a sales rep at Mehandi.com because no one responded to my thread on the NC color forum. That thread is called "Amla & Cassia" and I will leave a detailed post there about all I learned.

    Thanks, Korkscrew! I've subscribed to that thread and look forward to reading up. :)
    || 3b; normal porosity; fine/normal texture || CG since Feb 2010 || SD/dandruff prone

    Current Routine BAQ henna 1/month Leave-in OH Hair Dew Cheapie Conditioner Tresemme Naturals Moisturizing
    Old Stand-bys extra-virgin coconut oil Protein AO GPB; Moisture AO HR Style AOMMJ – Kept for troubleshooting.
    Waiting to try extra-wide curlformers SD treatment H&S Clinical Strength

  • seamelody14seamelody14 Posts: 282Registered Users
    What often works for me is to clarify with a serious clarifying shampoo, and then just be diligent about conditioning it. You can co-wash/condition daily or every other day, it shouldn't strip your hair. After a week or so you should begin to see your hair get back to normal. I'd use a conditioner that is high on moisture, and low on oils and proteins. Some are fine, just not too many. Leave it in for 5-10 minutes with each wash.
    2a/b
    medium/thick
    high porosity (from coloring)

    Shampoo: Mop Top Gentle Shampoo
    Co-wash: Chistophe Robin Lemon Cleansing Cream
    RO: CJ strengthening, Kenra moisturizing
    LI: Jessicurl Aloeba
    DT: CJ rehab, Christophe Robin Prickly Pear Mask
    PT: SS protein treatment, Ouidad 12 minute
    Stylers: Jessicurl RR, SS Firm Hold Gel
    Oils: caudalie, sweet almond
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    poemaXX wrote: »
    Thanks, Korkscrew! I've subscribed to that thread and look forward to reading up. :)

    Thanks P ;) I left a post with some info about henna over there (in case you haven't had a chance to check out that thread yet).

    What often works for me is to clarify with a serious clarifying shampoo, and then just be diligent about conditioning it. You can co-wash/condition daily or every other day, it shouldn't strip your hair. After a week or so you should begin to see your hair get back to normal. I'd use a conditioner that is high on moisture, and low on oils and proteins. Some are fine, just not too many. Leave it in for 5-10 minutes with each wash.

    The very first thing I did when noticing my problem was to clarify in order to remove any possible build-up. But it didn't seem to improve anything. I tried a hydrating conditioner afterward and my hair got worse. That's when I suspected my protein and/or pH balance was off. Although frankly, that only seemed like some of the problem because of the severe and sudden change in my hair's texture and appearance. The timing of it couldn't be ignored - it went all funky right after one of my routine semi-permanent color treatments.

    So far I've done two protein treatments and one ACV and my hair looks far better. The curl pattern is much stronger. There are still places where hair is weak and limp, and doesn't dry correctly (still fuzzy).

    That said, via some research yesterday, am pretty sure I figured out exactly what caused this problem, and will state it in the next post.
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    The culprit: Clairol Natural Instincts (semi-permanent dye); the newer version/formula which contains the 2 week color refresher packet.

    The situation: My hair had been responding well to the older formula, or so it seemed. I noticed a subtle change in texture two months ago after the first treatment with the new formula. I chalked it up to a need for a clarifying shampoo. Then just a couple weeks ago, I repeated the treatment and right after was when my hair went haywire, with a drastically weakened curl pattern, flatness and fuzziness, and took forever drying.

    Here's what I know now: it likely was more than the open cuticles/high porosity caused by the dye. Ten of these CNI colors have been officially recalled because they weren't formulated correctly. I have used at least one (#23R). Possibly more, because they are now expanding the original recall:

    P&G expands Clairol Natural Instincts recall | Drug Store News

    Here are disgruntled reviewers (2.3 stars out of 90 reviews)

    Clairol Natural Instincts Review | WARNING!!! DO NOT USE!!!

    A related amazon review search shows an alarming number of customers have had their hair trashed from this new formula. The two most common complaints were:

    1. Hair turned orange (or some clownish, bright color).

    2. Dye didn't take at all.

    (Another common complaint was "turned my hair to straw".)

    I suspect they made two errors: sent out some products with too much peroxide, and sent out others without enough. I likely got a peroxide overdose, based on my hair "symptoms". I'll keep using protein treatments, without going overboard, and then condition afterward.

    I will stay the **** away from Natural Instincts. I actually still trust Clairol overall. I was going to use a henna/indigo/amla treatment, but instead I think I'm going to give my hair a rest, then use Clairol Professionals for gray hair, which has 0 peroxide in it.
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 11,970Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I'm glad it's improving, finally!

    I tried Nat. Instincts years ago and hated it. I use L'oreal Preference - you might consider trying that instead.

    Please continue updating us! :nike:
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Hey, thanks a lot! I will look into the L'oreal (hopefully it has no peroxide). Maybe I can use that after trying this one I bought from Clairol Professionals.

    Have a great weekend :)