CurlTalk

Omg the tangles!

Okay, I'm back with my tangles.

My hair is INSANE.

Though, right now, it's GORGEOUS.

Okay, so basically I realized that I wash my hair every third day and in between BRHG is left on for days - is this just totally drying me out? I LOVE BRHG and for the first day it's on my hair it is beautful and soft, but maybe after that it starts to do something nasty to my hair?

My hair is like straw - and I am losing so much of it!!! I think b/c I have so many darn tangles to comb out.

WHAT IS THIS PROBLEM????

Maybe I need to wash more frequently? Deep condition or seal or something in between?

So darn frustrating.

I also thought I needed a cut but my mom (who cuts my hair) said no, she looked at my ends and said they are just really frizzy and I need to deep condition them or put avocado or mayo on them (ew) - so do I need to just leave protein in my hair all the time?
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
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Comments

  • InaEvaInaEva Posts: 61Registered Users
    What is BRHG? & It sounds like you're giving it too much protein if it feels like straw & falls out.
    Mulatto, Long 3B Hair
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • elizardelizard Posts: 284Registered Users
    BRHG (Biosilk Rock Hard Gelee) has protein in it.
    2b/c wavy modified CG since July 2012
    medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity
    hair likes protein, doesn't like oils, easily OC'd

    low poo: JCHCC, CJGCS
    RO/co-wash/LI: YTCarrots, DB Pumpkin Seed
    stylers: a bunch of stylers that are all pretty much the same (KCCC, UFDCM, CRCM, CKCJ) or ArcAngel if I need more hold
    DT/PT: CJRM, CNPF
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    Wow, I think this might be it - I LOVE BRHG on my hair - but it's really killing me. I just had a plumber here who snaked my tub and the amount of hair that came out - well, this is gross, but he called it a pony tail. it was INSANE (and I mostly throw out what comes out so that was like half!)

    Ugh. So it's falling out b/c of too much protein?

    Today, I'm just doing some KCCC and mandarin jelly and that's it. I'll experiment with eliminating it and see how it goes.
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • adthomasadthomas Posts: 5,525Registered Users
    How do you wear your hair to bed? I braid mine. And that helps a lot on tangles. Plus satin bonnet or pillowcase. Some people pineapple.
    Yes, it's real. No, you can't touch it. :wav:
  • SaraNoHSaraNoH Posts: 827Registered Users
    Huh, but your sig says you're fine textured. You must really be hitting the protein. Or maybe it's the specific type in BRHG? That might be something to check out.

    One big thing I do to combat the tangles is oil. My LI is fairly oily and when I put in enough it just smoothes things out a bit. That and avoiding friction against my clothes which is a never ending battle....
    CG Birthday: 7/25/11
    Type 3a/2c
    Dense, Fine in front Coarse in back, Low porosity
    Low-Poo: SM Moisture Retention Shampoo
    Rinse Out: Tresemme Naturals
    Leave In: ^^^^
    Stylers: AIF, Natural Silks Curly Gel
    *Desert Curly*
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    Yeah, I generally pull it back at night. Though now I can't remember. I will though - pineapple is just up on top of your head, right?

    What should I do to help undo the bad effects of brhg?
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users
    Well, tangly hair sometimes means it NEEDS protein - but the more protein you use, the more moisture you need to add.

    I had major tangle problems a while back. I started doing Gelatin PT's, using products with protein in them, but then also doing regular DT's, using more LI and oil, and sealing.

    And I'll tell you the absolute MIRACLE for my tangles was sealing with a few drops of mineral oil on very wet hair. (over LI, under stylers). My nape used to be a RATS NEST pretty much daily, but that problem has all but disappeared.

    It's hard to tell sometimes if you are dry or if you are over proteined. (or if you are dry BECAUSE of the protein.). You may still need a lot of protein for your hair, especially since you say your curls are nice now, but you aren't getting the balance of protein a moisture quite right just yet. Generally for fine hair the more you use of one, the more you need of the other.

    Of course be sure your RO has plenty of slip. Also only detangle in the shower with conditioner in your hair using a wide tooth comb. Another tip is to let the shower water run down your hair as you detangle. It tends to help the knots come loose.
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    Thanks everyone - I'm feeling more hopeful. Here's what I'm going to try.

    Washing every other day rather than every third.
    Quitting BRHG
    Using Happy Scalp and sealing with oil at night and in a ponytail (pineapple?) (on the nights before I'll wash)
    Trying a seal - I'm going to try Jane Carter
    I just got Paul Mitchel the Detangler and Biolage Conditioning balm - both have good slip, as does smoothing lotion (but few others do - any tips) do either of those have too much of anything or are they okay to use regularly?
    I can do one weekly PT with either Elucence or Curl Rehab (or is that more deep conditioning?) - though I may even use Repair me as a LI

    I will use more KCCC -

    And if I use heavy oils/butters what do I need to do to keep things in balance?

    (My hair definitely feels softer and happier after PT)
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    Actually, I don't know if I can use repair me - I think it has wheat in it, and I'm off all wheat- so I use a lot of the shea moisture line.

    Oh, and can I use poo? (no harsh ingredients?) I like to feel like I'm getting build up out when I wash every other day. Sometimes I use Daily Fix or the SheaMoisture poo or just the baby castor oil poo
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    I have no answers. I'm hooking on to this thread because I need help too!

    btw - I know for sure my hair isn't fond of protein, and protein treatments have caused my hair to tangle horrifically. Hair stylists would always push protein, protein, protein and my hair would fall out fall out fall out.
    3b/c, Coarse, Low Porosity, Desert Climate
    CG since August 2011/Occasionally Minimally Modified since 2013
    Favorites: Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl Cleansing Conditioner, Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl High Definition Moisture Gel, Beautiful Nutrition UltraLight Lime Jel Control Serum, Beautiful Nutrition Lemon Rinse Clarifying Treatment
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    See, this is why I get so confused! And I've been at this for YEARS!! :silent:

    *my hair really seems to like protein*

    So when people say their hair likes this or doesn't like that - I never know how to tell with my hair except based on immediate reaction - like it's softer, and less tangly and looks pretty! :)

    I have no idea what happens later or why - if it's falling out, it can be any number of reasons. I recently got rid of all products with wheat - now I'm blaming the BRHG or not enough sealing. Who KNOWS?!?! :)

    What your saying is helpful, but does this mean you use no protein? Or just less of it?
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    Garden, I'm going to try the detanglers and LI in your siggy.
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    And maybe this is all hard water build up! Agh! I don't know!
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    Hard water can make a difference, but I don't know how much of a difference. I just realized that you mentioned you've recently been using a gel (I didn't know what BHRG was). Last week I decided to try to use gel again, after using only curl cream for 3 months. I was using DevaCare ArcAngel every other day, and sometimes every day. I started to notice major tangles and dryness, so when I did my thorough scrub over the weekend, I left a little bit of my conditioner in my hair, and nothing else. It took a half hour to detangle my hair in the bath, and I was ready to rip it out!

    This morning I wet my hair pretty thoroughly (it's finally starting to feel dry at 6:30 pm), and I put a little more of my co-wash in it any nothing else, detangled for 15 minutes, and let it dry. It feels a little better, so I think maybe I can't use so much gel?

    I don't know if there are proteins in here or not. Is Hops protein?

    Water (Aqua, Eau), VP/VA Copolymer, Glycerin, PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Citrus Aurentium Dulcis (Orange) Peel Extract, Triticum Aestivum (Wheat) Peptide, Avena Sativa (Oat) Peptide, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Peptide, Melissa Officinalis Extract, Humulus Lupulus (Hops) Extract, Cymbopogon Schoenanthus Extract, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract, Achillea Millefolium Extract, DMDM Hydantoin, Aminomethyl Propanol, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Fragrance (Parfum), Red 33 (CI 17200), Yellow 5 (CI 19140)
    3b/c, Coarse, Low Porosity, Desert Climate
    CG since August 2011/Occasionally Minimally Modified since 2013
    Favorites: Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl Cleansing Conditioner, Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl High Definition Moisture Gel, Beautiful Nutrition UltraLight Lime Jel Control Serum, Beautiful Nutrition Lemon Rinse Clarifying Treatment
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    Yeah, when I saw deva in your siggy I thought wow, I'm impressed that anyone can use that - esp. arc angell - that stuff was instantly drying and crazy damaging to my hair.

    BRHG has been (biolage rock-hard gelee) my HG (holy grail) and I love it but I think it is killing my hair at this point. I have to figure out what protein is in it.
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    Okay, so I did a little research and realized BRHG has panthenol and read about it but that seems to be really helpful to hair. HOWEVER the hydrolized silk protein ...may not be..

    Read this thread - really interesting: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/71848-there-good-bad-proteins.html

    It's resonating with me b/c my hair is so frizzy, strawlike, and dry and I can't figure out why but that seems to be symptomatic of protein overload (using BRHG all the time, etc.)

    So now I gotta just experiment with a week or two free of protein - since I already eliminated all the wheat, that shouldn't be too hard - or will it???
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    I hate panthenol. It's very drying on me. Not unusual for coarser haired curlies.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    Oh no! Well I can't have wheat, and I think I can't have hydrolized (since removing wheat only hasn't done a whole lot). So I will eliminate that next (anyway BRHG has both).

    What's left? Do I just live protein-free? Is that possible? And here, all along, I thought my hair loved protein!!
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    Are you sure that you're fine textured?
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    I had my hair analyzed -

    Anyway, now I have to eliminate 9,000 more products! Ugh. I'm just doing hydrolized first and will do panthenol later.

    So I'm wondering if Silk proteins is the same as Hydrolized - b/c I just read in that other thread I posted that anything "hydrolized" is next on the list (next to wheat) for protein sensitive - some products have "hydrolized" and others just have silk or whatever.


    Bye bye repair me!

    The shea moisture line has "silk protein" but it's not hydrolized.

    Since when did I become a chemist?
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    These are unusual reactions for a fine haired curly.

    Pay attention to the source protein. Hydrolyzed describes size. If your hair hates silk, it will probably (but not always) hate it in all forms.

    If you live in a dry or low dew point climate, you could just need moisture.

    You might just have build up and need a good wash.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    I just did a product search for protein free and Curl Enhancing smoothie comes up (Sheamoisture) - it's right in front of me, though and it says it has Silk protein in it?!?!

    Also recoil def. has protein, I thought.
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    LilaGirl wrote: »
    Yeah, when I saw deva in your siggy I thought wow, I'm impressed that anyone can use that - esp. arc angell - that stuff was instantly drying and crazy damaging to my hair.

    My hair looked SO GOOD the first two days I had people complimenting it everywhere I went. I never, ever get hair compliments. When I got the first one I actually turned around to see who was standing behind me because it didn't register that someone was saying, "I love your hair," to me!:toothy7:

    It was fun for awhile, but if looking good for two days means burlap rope the rest of the week it's not worth it.

    Is Hops protein? I don't have many gels and I used the DevaCare because I thought it was supposed to be moisturizing. It's fantastic for definition and getting rid of frizz...but I'm thinking it's going to be awhile before I brave using it again. *sigh*
    3b/c, Coarse, Low Porosity, Desert Climate
    CG since August 2011/Occasionally Minimally Modified since 2013
    Favorites: Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl Cleansing Conditioner, Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl High Definition Moisture Gel, Beautiful Nutrition UltraLight Lime Jel Control Serum, Beautiful Nutrition Lemon Rinse Clarifying Treatment
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    Hops, like many plant extracts, can feel protein like on hair, though it's more common in coarser hair. I can't stand hops, except in AOHR, where they seem overpowered by the other stuff. Brittle city with the hops. There's a reason people used beer in hair. Hops help for those who need it.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    redceltic, according to this, I'm thinking I have coarse hair?

    No-poo Jillipoo: The curl doctor is in!
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    So is hydrolized silk protein and silk protein the same?
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    Maybe.

    Do you remember your porosity? Low porosity hair can be difficult to moisturize.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    Huh!

    I'm stumped.

    But, if your analysis hairs were mainly from your temple area (if I recall the analysis instructions), you may have fine temples and coarse elsewhere?

    You could try low or no protein to see how it works for you.

    If you've used any silicones or polyquats, you may need to clarify.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • LilaGirlLilaGirl Posts: 1,177Registered Users
    the hair sample was from all over.

    I haven't used cones.

    I truly think it's the protein - I'm thinking hydrolized, but I don't know if just plain silk protein is a problem. We'll see - lots of experimenting to do - but I'm desperate - I've lost SO MUCH HAIR!
    3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

    LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
    (don't ask me to pronounce that!)


    Want to grow it long again!
    And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
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