girls, give a curly male some help

note: just chopped off my fro two days back at the barbershop. This is how it use to look like and i refuse to go back to the dead hair look. (Also, i will try to hit up salons now instead of barbershops)
jonah_hill_5056409.jpg

Alright, I stumbled on this forum from other forums who told me go here for some pro-curly advice. Been reading a couple of things here and there and ive been learning a lot. I feel like i learned to much where the information has become OVERWHELMING, especially with hair types (porosity protein sensitive etc) and hair product.

How to describe my hair... for short, its dry all over and on the top of my scalp there is always a section where curl is not defined, its just frizz

So far here is my hair regime.(every other day)
Rinse my hair with warm water to get things started
Put a dime size of tresemme naturals as a co-wash
rub my scalp with finger tips for about 2-5 minutes
rinse out
dime size amount of my leave-in kinky curly, apply throughout the hair (not the roots)
use a wide tooth comb and comb the kinky curly throughout my hair.
3nMVI.jpg
Now, my curls look some what defined (cant really tell now since i have short hair) however it is dry and not soft to the touch.

Should i add a deep conditioner to my regime every week
?
If yes, how would this work with my regime, would i co-wash, deep condition (10 minutes apx) and then add a leave in?

Is my hair protein sensitive?
this is something i realized this week, i noticed tresemme had aloe vera and avocado which in some hair can dry it out.

Thanks in advance, i want to say excuse my ignorance with curly hair, im just a guy. us guys dont know squat when it comes to hair.

Comments

  • Gilly07Gilly07 Posts: 95Registered Users
    Hi!
    First of all I would suggest that you use more than a dime sized amount for your CO wash, most people use at least a handful some with longer hair use a huge amount! My hair is to the base of my neck at the moment and I use a handful of Nature's Gate Biotin conditioner whenever I CO.
    The trick with curly hair is to be gentle with it, rather than scrubbing with your fingers, smoosh it into your hair and massage it for 30 seconds then leave it alone while you do the rest of your shower, then massage it again for 30 seconds and rinse, rinse, rinse.
    I have never used Kinky Curly so I have no idea!

    I hope that helps a bit!
  • Geek_ChicGeek_Chic Posts: 1,275Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Hi Fro. One of my go to people for hair questions is a guy friend of mine, so there are knowledgeable ones out there. We all started where you are, so no need to feel ignorant, just figure you're new and learning. It is overwhelming at the beginning, but give it time, and you'll figure it out. I was 2 months in before I finally felt like I'd figured out my porosity, and while my basic routine is set, I'm still learning new stuff..

    Sure, you can add a dt to your routine. Maybe start with once a week. Cowash, apply the dt and leave it on for a while, then rinse. I don't personally do them, but 30 minute, 60 minute, and even overnight dt's are fairly common. Then yes, you can apply a leave in afterward if needed.

    As for protein sensitivity, aloe and avocado oil aren't proteins. Aloe is a humectant, which means it attempts to hydrate what's driest by drawing moisture from whatever is wettest. In humid conditions (summer) or in damp climates, that means it moisturizes the hair by drawing moisture out of the air. In dry conditions (winter, with indoor heating running), or dry desert climates, that means the aloe is trying to hydrate the air by drawing moisture from the hair, which can create frizz. Used in your cowash conditioner, it's helping to pull moisture from the steamy bathroom air into your hair.

    Avocado oil is purely fat, with no protein content at all. Generally oils help impart shine, detangle, and seal the hair from the elements (moisture in, gunk out). Avocado oil is one that can penetrate the hair shaft (many do not), so it acts as a moisturizing agent.

    For your cowash step, you want enough conditioner to give your hair some slip and moisture. You do want to massage the scalp with your fingertips (not hard), but you want enough conditioner in there to lubricate it a bit. This isn't the primary conditioning step though, it's the cleansing step, so you don't want to glop it on either. The Tresemme Nourishing Moisture does have Alcohol and Isopropyl Alcohol in it toward the end of the ingredients list, and both can be drying. I wouldn't necessarily blame it for your issues yet, since you don't use a rinse out conditioner, just cowash and leave in.

    Speaking of a rinse out conditioner, I'd suggest maybe adding one to your routine. Rinse outs are generally more moisturizing than your cowash conditioner, and applied between your cowash and leave in step (cowash, rinse, apply rinse out conditioner, rinse, apply leave in). I'd do that as an easy step 1 of helping to better hydrate your hair. Do your rinse out as part of your 3 days a week normal wash day routine. If you want some on the ground options, I use Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition and love it. Others like Garnier Sleek and Shine, Sally's GVP Conditioning Balm, or Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose, but there are tons of other good options available. If you like online, boutique stuff, many like Curl Junkie, Kinky Curly, and Spiral Solutions stuff, but they aren't the only options either.

    Also, for some, Kinky Curly Knot Today isn't moisturizing enough and they prefer a richer leave in. You might try using more of it at a time before deciding it isn't working for you. I'd point to lack of a rinse out conditioner as the probable cause of dryness before I'd necessarily pin it on the Knot Today though.
    CG since 11/2011
    2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

    Go To Products /Routine:
    Clarifying: Suave Essentials Strawberry
    Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
    CO: Suave Essentials Strawberry, V05 Kiwi Lime
    RO /LI: Tresemme Perfectly (un)Done, Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze, Suave Essentials Strawberry, Renpure Brazilian Keratin (old formula)
    Stylers: LALSG, AIF, HETT, Suave Professionals Firm Control
    PT: IAGirl's as needed
  • DevushkaDevushka Posts: 1,080Registered Users
    I know that it's overwhelming when you first start out, but it's still best that you figure out your hair's properties so you can apply the best hair care specifically for it. If you go to Live Curly Live Free - Home, there's lots of info that's well organized and presented clearly which should help. When I started, I got the Live Curly Live Free ebook and read it, plus I got the hair analysis that's offered there. There are plenty of curlies out there that skip those steps, but for me it helped a lot with the learning curve.

    If I were you, I'd use more conditioner to cowash, and I would also start doing deep conditioners. There are lots of choices for DCs, from expensive to homemade. A favorite of mine is a mixture of 1 tbsp each of Honey, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, and DevaCurl One Condition. I found that when I use a heat therapy cap on top of my DCs, it really boosts the results.

    My hair is protein sensitive and feels hard and straw-like if I use products with strengthening proteins like hydrolyzed wheat protein, but products with softening proteins like silk amino acids do wonders for my hair. You're going for the right moisture vs. protein balance for your hair -- Too much protein, and your hair will feel hard; too much moisture, and your hair will feel "mushy" (and then you'll have to have protein treatments to get rid of "mushy hair"). The products you're using shouldn't be causing any protein problems, so it might just be that you need to incorporate DCs into your routine for your hair to feel softer.

    There's usually plenty of trial and error involved when you start out, so get comfortable with that. I'm almost thoroughly a CG method girl (Lorraine Massey's "Curly Girl" hair care method), so I try my best to avoid products with sulfates and non-water-soluble silicones. But there are plenty of curlies who use a modified CG method or who aren't CG at all because they've found that's what works best for their hair. Again, trial and error as well as paying attention to what your hair is telling you will help you figure out a lot.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3b / Fine / Low (to Med) Density / Normal Porosity & Elasticity
    Currently Using [*Holy Grails*]
    Cleansers: DC No-Poo / DC Low-Poo / *BaSo & ACV*
    Co-Washes/ROs: CJ Beauticurls Argan & OO / DC OneC / Organicals DC Creme
    Additives: *Silk Amino Acids* / Honeyquat / Fragrance Oils
    LIs (found some!): KCKT / CJ Beauticurls LI / CJ Curl Assurance Smoothing Daily Condish
    DTs: *Coconut Oil* rinses / *Honey*, EVOO, & DC OneC / CJ Curl Rehab
    Sealer: *DM Super Buttercreme*
    Goal: APL Hair
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,355Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    it sounds very confusing, but once you've figured it out, it's easy.

    for a cowash, it is essential that you scrub your scalp with your fingertips -- that opens the pores and gets out the dirt that could clog them. then gently massage your hair a bit. then rinse out.

    if you are low pooing, ie, using your tresemme or other low poo, then you don't really need a rinse out and leave in, you use one for both purposes.

    after either cowash or low poo, then do your rinse out/leave in conditioner. if your leave in is moisturizing enough, you may not need to do a deep treatment as you go along.

    also, look into some sealing products if you feel your hair needs something more for low dews.

    look at our signatures here for product ideas. and use the product section here to select some.

    finally, a decent cut is important. sounds like you already have most of this, you are on your way. and, i congratulate you. ironically my daughter and i were having a conversation about men and their hair (as we were at a red light we saw a man getting out of his parked car who sported a very 80s look which made us laugh) and how some men just do not realize they can manage their hair in different ways. i think it is a very positive step for both men and women. (i also think it is helpful in whatever field you go into to look the best you can.)

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    thanks for the tips ladies! Since my TN (cowash) is about to finish, ill see if i can buy another bottle right now. Never thought about a rinseout, i heard Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose is a good rinse out and can also work as a deep conditioner. ill keep you updated


    just went to my local beauty store and could not find aubrey organics, so i went with the Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition conditioner as a rinse out. Will let you know how it fits in with the tresseme co wash and the knot today leave in
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    alright, yesturday i did a co-wash/rinse/leave in with my
    TN, GFTN, and KCKT with all the tips you guys gave me. My curls have a little shine to them and is pretty soft to the touch. Just the center of my scalp is still a little dry and brittle. Anything i can do about that certain area?
  • DevushkaDevushka Posts: 1,080Registered Users
    It may just be a matter of giving a new hair care routine (that seems to be producing good results) more time to keep working. When I first started the CG method, it took something like 2 or 3 weeks before I felt like I was seeing a positive difference. When I look back, I fretted a lot during that initial period because I was so anxious to see improvement in my hair (even though it involved correcting a lot of bad hair care I'd been practicing for years).

    If after at a least a few more cowashes and stylings you don't see an improvement of a specific hair issue, you'll probably have to tweak your products and/or routine to keep moving your hair care in the right directions.

    And don't underestimate the importance of correctly determining your hair's properties. Knowing your hair's texture, porosity, elasticity, and density will help your learning curve a lot!

    Glad you're already seeing results!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3b / Fine / Low (to Med) Density / Normal Porosity & Elasticity
    Currently Using [*Holy Grails*]
    Cleansers: DC No-Poo / DC Low-Poo / *BaSo & ACV*
    Co-Washes/ROs: CJ Beauticurls Argan & OO / DC OneC / Organicals DC Creme
    Additives: *Silk Amino Acids* / Honeyquat / Fragrance Oils
    LIs (found some!): KCKT / CJ Beauticurls LI / CJ Curl Assurance Smoothing Daily Condish
    DTs: *Coconut Oil* rinses / *Honey*, EVOO, & DC OneC / CJ Curl Rehab
    Sealer: *DM Super Buttercreme*
    Goal: APL Hair
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    Thanks for the advice!
    I did another cowash/RO/LI yesterday and my hair alitte dry. I'll try to do it every 3 days or maybe I used TOO much KCKT as a leave in for my really short hair. Is it safe to wear hats or will they cause frizz?
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I second the e-book on the livecurlylive free website. It's an organized way to learn about curly hair. Nothing that isn't on nc.com, but all of the information in one place. The KCKT wasn't moisturizing enough for me--and your hair does look like it could use some moisture.

    AO conditioners might be a way to go for you to start. However, as a male, you may want to think about the scents of the products you buy. Many find the AOHR scent revolting (me included.) As a male, you may not care for the scent--and if it lingers on you, you wouldn't be happy walking around smelling that way. Island Naturals has a "clove" like scent, as I recall. That may be a good one to start.

    Once you determine your hair properties, you can look for folks with hair like yours and see what they use (most have it in their signatures.) It's the best place to start.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • romigjamromigjam Posts: 219Registered Users
    If you feel like you want to simplify your routine a bit, but still get good results, I use the GFTN as my RO and my LI. I found that KCKT was not moisturizing for my hair, so I used my most moisturizing RO, GFTN, as my leave in as well. This may help with that dry patch in the center of your scalp.

    For the hat question, it depends on the fabric your hat is made of. If it is a fabric that could catch on your hair and pull it out into a frizzy mess, then I wouldn't recommend it. However, I am currently wearing a cotton beanie on my head (I have a pixie cut, so it doesn't really mess up my style). The cotton fabric doesn't pull on my hair as much as say, polyester or another abrasive fabric.
    2bc3a
    CG since December '09
    loo-poo: Kiss My Face Everywhere Shampoo
    cowash: Suave Naturals, CJ DF
    rinse out: TN
    leave-in: CJHBLI, CJSL, SMRC
    stylers: (rotating) CJAF, CCCC, SMCS, Ecostyler, KMFUM
    DT: CJCR
    PT:CJRM

    love oils, avocado and castor oil are my favorite

    Iherb discount code TSW857
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    Will look into that e-book
    My tresemme naturals finished and I just purchased Suave Naturals Coconut Conditioner. Was browsing the forms and I read that isopropyl alcohol (in Tresemme nat) can cause dry hair. ill let you ladies know how my scalp/hair likes suave as a co-wash.

    Still could not find the Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle conditioner. Funny cause my local beauty supply store has kinky curly but no Aubrey. Would like to smell it before I buy it. Where can one find AO in NYC, some one said a vitamin store

    I will also try using GFTN as a RO/leave in without my KCKT.
    Thanks for helping me ladies, I'll keep you updated. :afro:
  • CubanwavyCubanwavy Posts: 293Registered Users
    Hi Fro! Has anyone told you that you look like the food writer on the Bethanny show! Are you the same person?
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,355Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    wholefoods carries aubrey organics.
    i tried the honeysuckle rose twice -- my hair hated it. found it heavy and not at all moisturizing.
    i don't have a conditioner that you can buy locally that i like, get mine online, so others will have to help you out there. and your hair may love honeysuckle rose conditioner. it's not expensive,worth a try.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    Found a local store that has aubrey organics
    will try buy it and let you know how it goes.
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    Feel like the aubrey as a rinse out dries out my hair, will try it again this whole week and try it as a deep conditioner. Im not sure if im using enoupgh rinseout conditioner and leave in. If it dont work ill just use GFTN as a rinse out. Any thoughts/recommendations.
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,355Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    my hair hated aubrey organics -- felt heavy in my hair AND it was drying!! a lot of people here swear by it, but my hair wouldn't even consider it.
    never tried gftn. my hair also hated suave conditioners, they also were drying to my hair. used to use natures gate, but they changed the formulas and my hair does not like the new formulas.

    i've been sticking with curl junkie conditioners/deep treatments. there are a handful of retail locations,not sure if there is one by you. i buy mine online at aveyou.com which always has different price codes going on --

    FIVE for 15% if you buy $50 or more
    GIVEME15 for $15 off any purchase of $75 and more
    GIMME25 -- $25 off any purchase of $100 and more

    the shipping is $5 for purchase under $50, $1 for $50 and over.

    now, having typed all that out, LOL!, you may want to start with samples of her products first. the best way to do that is to pm kathymack on here, she sells samples. her public fokti has a list of samples and prices.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    quick update, i tried the aubrey again but as a deep conditioner, i applied it when my hair was dry (before a shower) and left it in for 10 minutes. Co-washed with suave, rinsed out with GFTN and leave in KCKT. My curls look nice and a bit shinier then i started CG, yet they dont feel smooth and soft. I mean, some parts of my hair are soft to the touch (for instance the side of my hair near my ear) and the very top is still dry and has no defined curls. Will give aubrey another chance with a deep condition. I cannot use it every 2 days because it dries out my hair.

    any extra advice or tips?
  • DevushkaDevushka Posts: 1,080Registered Users
    Fro wrote: »
    quick update, i tried the aubrey again but as a deep conditioner, i applied it when my hair was dry (before a shower) and left it in for 10 minutes. Co-washed with suave, rinsed out with GFTN and leave in KCKT. My curls look nice and a bit shinier then i started CG, yet they dont feel smooth and soft. I mean, some parts of my hair are soft to the touch (for instance the side of my hair near my ear) and the very top is still dry and has no defined curls. Will give aubrey another chance with a deep condition. I cannot use it every 2 days because it dries out my hair.

    any extra advice or tips?

    Btw, GFTN reportedly has changed its formula to include amodimethicone, a non-water soluble cone. Just mentioning that in case your intention is to use only sulfate-free & silicone-free products and you got a hold of a bottle of the new formula with the cone in it and are using that.

    For deep conditioning, I really like Curl Junkie Curl Rehab, but I also often make my own DC by mixing 1 tablespoon each of Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Honey, and a sulfate-free silicone-free conditioner (Usually DevaCurl One Condition). I always leave whatever DCs I'm using on for longer than 10 minutes though (More like 30 minutes). Also, I sometimes add Silk Amino Acids to my conditioners (if the don't have have it as an ingredient). I find that SAA make my hair really soft. [I get SAA from LotionCrafter.com]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3b / Fine / Low (to Med) Density / Normal Porosity & Elasticity
    Currently Using [*Holy Grails*]
    Cleansers: DC No-Poo / DC Low-Poo / *BaSo & ACV*
    Co-Washes/ROs: CJ Beauticurls Argan & OO / DC OneC / Organicals DC Creme
    Additives: *Silk Amino Acids* / Honeyquat / Fragrance Oils
    LIs (found some!): KCKT / CJ Beauticurls LI / CJ Curl Assurance Smoothing Daily Condish
    DTs: *Coconut Oil* rinses / *Honey*, EVOO, & DC OneC / CJ Curl Rehab
    Sealer: *DM Super Buttercreme*
    Goal: APL Hair
  • missbanjomissbanjo Posts: 3,088Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It sounds like you may benefit from a coconut oil pre-wash. You might be able to get your hands on some Curl Junkie in your area, they have some pretty rich conditioners.
    Southern Colorado Curly
    Mix of 2s med-low porosity, med-fine texture, lots of hair
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    ry9Hj.jpg
    just cowashed,ro,LI
    this is how my hair looks right after
  • DevushkaDevushka Posts: 1,080Registered Users
    Fro wrote: »
    ry9Hj.jpg
    just cowashed,ro,LI
    this is how my hair looks right after

    Don't know what it feels like, but your hair is looking really good! Did you put any styling gel on it? Be sure to keep your hands off it while it's drying so the curls set.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3b / Fine / Low (to Med) Density / Normal Porosity & Elasticity
    Currently Using [*Holy Grails*]
    Cleansers: DC No-Poo / DC Low-Poo / *BaSo & ACV*
    Co-Washes/ROs: CJ Beauticurls Argan & OO / DC OneC / Organicals DC Creme
    Additives: *Silk Amino Acids* / Honeyquat / Fragrance Oils
    LIs (found some!): KCKT / CJ Beauticurls LI / CJ Curl Assurance Smoothing Daily Condish
    DTs: *Coconut Oil* rinses / *Honey*, EVOO, & DC OneC / CJ Curl Rehab
    Sealer: *DM Super Buttercreme*
    Goal: APL Hair
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    i guess some sections feels straw like, no gel was placed only KCKT as a leave in
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    is there any stylers i can use on my hair?
    im not really fond of gel and the hold it gives since it is to strong and i dont like that hard feeling.
    any one know any mousse or pomade
  • JRockJRock Posts: 170Registered Users
    Your hair looks great!

    An inexpensive CG mousse is Herbal Essences Totally Twisted. You can experiment with it to see if you like how mousse reacts to your hair. I've never used a pomade so I can't help with that. Most gels do dry crunchy but then you need to scrunch out the crunch (SOTC) to get soft curls. I don't like the crunchy feeling either but I love the hold of gel.

    Good luck!


    Fat Thumbs + iPhone = Errors 
  • missbanjomissbanjo Posts: 3,088Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    You might consider mixing up some Flax Seed Gel, it's pretty easy. It'll be moisturizing for your dry area and probably won't have any crunch. You can order it here but I find the price is a bit steep considering it's flax seeds soaked/cooked in water. Flax seeds are $3-5 a pound at any health food store so it's pretty cheap to make (and the seeds can be frozen for future use).

    This is the main thread for making FSG (started by the mixtress in the link above and pretty long) but basically it's 1/4 cup flax seeds to 1 cup water. You can soak it overnight if you just don't have time to stand over the stove but it really only takes 10-15 minutes. There are a bunch of videos on youtube you can search for as well, the site's not working for me at the moment or I'd post a link.
    Southern Colorado Curly
    Mix of 2s med-low porosity, med-fine texture, lots of hair
  • FroFro Posts: 14Registered Users
    My gftn is almost finished and ive read there new formula is not cg friendly. Any alternatives for a RO?
  • amandamarieamandamarie Posts: 240Registered Users
    Biolage/GVP Conditioning Balm is nice and moisturizing.

    Also your hair looks JUST like my dad's to the point where I read through all your posts trying to make sure you weren't him.
    2a/b (really thick but sort of fine with pretty weak waves), medium-to-fine texture, normal porosity (I think). Doesn't seem to like protein.

    Favorite products: Kinky-Curly Knot Today, Kinky-Curly Curling Custard, Curl Junkie Curls in a Bottle, Curl Junkie Curl Rehab, Curl Junkie Curl Assurance Smoothing Lotion, Shea Moisture Curl and Style Milk, homemade flaxseed gel.

    Still looking for a cleanser I like. :dontknow:

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