Spinoff: Death penalty

Despite what I think of as somewhat silly disagreement about what is and is not appropriate as a national celebration, another post brought up the question-do you approve or disapprove of the death penalty? This came up in conversations I had recently due to the plea agreement in Seattle. I have to say, no matter how terrible I think the guy was for all those murders, I *still* don't approve of the death penalty. How about you?
Please remember-this can be a very touchy subject, and we're all allowed our own feelings on the matter, so please don't attack each other just because you feel differently on the matter....
Please remember-this can be a very touchy subject, and we're all allowed our own feelings on the matter, so please don't attack each other just because you feel differently on the matter....
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1. Cases are rarely airtight. I personally wouldn't want to throw the switch on someone because the likelihood of a mistake in the prosecution is too high.
2. Fiscally, it seems irresponsible. Costs for endless appeals are hellishly expensive. If they're locked away with no possibility of parole (a la the Green River Killer), if there is a mistake found in the prosecution, the person's still alive and the error can be remedied.
3. The argument that the death penalty is a deterrent doesn't hold any water with me. It may stop very few, but when murder is committed in the heat of the moment, which most are, thinking about the chair is not going to enter the mind of the potential killer. Most criminals just don't think that far ahead. If they were truly worried about consequences, they wouldn't be pointing the gun/knife/car at someone in the first place.
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It's not fairly administered
It keeps authorities from learning more about the criminal/crime
It's expensive
It appeals to our base primitive need for revenge
Most important to me, as I heard after Tim McVeigh's death, after an execution, the only person no longer suffering is the guilty one. It seems almost to easy and I'd rather they spend the rest of their miserable life locked up.
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For the record, I am against it for the reasons curlytori listed.
I totally agree. And have to bring up a point I've heard people use FOR it. I've heard people say "I don't want so-and-so to be kept alive on taxpayers' money forever!" It's usually more expensive to execute someone than keep them alive, due to the many legally required appeals. Just thought I'd share.
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I think people are still sorting out how they feel about it. I used to be for and now i'm against.
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I'd just like to get some insight into what drives the arguments against the death penalty. Personally, I voted yes. I think it does have its place in limited cases.
This first point, I won't debate. Everyone has a different opinion on how far the government's reach should be, and to what extent they are the moral guide for our daily lives.
I'm interested to know how you mean this? Are you referring to along racial lines, or because different methods used in different states, or...? If the problem is in the application, then by all means, it should be reviewed. It doesn't necessarily mean we are incapable of administering differently.
What more should we expect to learn about a criminal that an often nauseatingly long legal process (hearings, trials, convictions, years that many spend on death row) won't bring out? Nothing stops authorities from further investigation based on other empirical evidence after the fact, witnesses, accomplices, friends/family of the convicted, etc.
Agreed. However, the costly appeals process often occurs regardless of whether the death penalty is determined as the punishment. I'd like to see some information on how many of these appeals in our system are direct results of death convictions as opposed to life or other prison terms. I'd be surprised if we don't find death cases contribute to a much smaller portion of these legal costs than the multitude of other cases. I may be wrong.
I do think the execution process is way too elaborate. I'm sure we can find a much easier way ($0.50 bullet?) to handle executions.
This statement would seem to appeal to that same need, no?
I believe that the death penalty as it is practiced today is not always just or practical for many of the reasons outlined above by others (the cost of the appeal process, unacceptable rate of false conviction, fairness in application, racial disparity)
However, all of my objections to the death penalty have to do with the way our system handles it - and some, like racial disparity, are problems with our justice system in general. I do not take issue with the basic concept that sometimes executing a violent criminal may be necessary and just.
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It is awful when someone is murdered, but for us to possibly turn around and kill someone who is innocent is maybe even worse.
I do think I could vote for the death penalty if someone was caught red handed committing the crime and there was no doubt of their guilt. Since that rarely happens, I have to say I am now against the death penalty.
unfortunately, I am somewhat of a vengeance seeking person. I know that is not healthy, and in some ways it is better to forgive. I dont want to, but I really want someting more for (that person who murdered someone extramely close to me) than to be in a jail cell all day. I think the death penalty is justice. I will never, ever, ever have a chance of seeing my mom again, yet her convicted killer is living, and sorry, but I cannot get over that fact.
Despite everything, I was supporitve of the death penalty long before anything ever happened to me, so it is not like anything completely altered my thinking.
And I agree with you. It all changes when you're on the other side.
I don't have the answers myself, it's just something I always think of when this issue comes up. And what is the meaning of revenge to a person who has been wronged? Obviously, it can't undo the harm that's been done - and can it possibly make someone feel better? (These are rhetorical questions, in my view - the issues have been around forever, and I don't expect to see them resolved. Just things to think about.)
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But I don't believe in the death penalty in this country. People are not treated equally in this country or in the criminal justice system, and there are way too many innocent people sitting in prisons for crimes they did not commit. I realize that the system will never be foolproof, but there is still plenty of room for improvement as it is now.
I have had many family members that were murdered (none that I was close to). My mother was close to them, however. And she is against the death penalty, also. She KNOWS what it's like to lose a family member, and she doesn't want to cause someone else's family the same pain. Their love for their loved one is no less than the love she felt for the people she has lost.
And I feel the same way.
I do get tested sometimes, though. A little girl from my neighborhood was kidnapped a couple years and they've never found her. I truly believe in my heart that her step-father killed her or had something to do with it. I personally want to kill him, but I can't agree with the a state-sponsored killing. And if for some reason he is charged and convicted, he won't get the death penalty because WI doesn't have it.
I know it's wrong to be so vengeful but it's really just what I believe.
but also... I think some people do not deserve this life that God grants us, when they use it to take life from others.
but again... some of the most gruesome and disgusting and horrifying crimes have been committed by someone who felt it was his/her holy war against the person or persons he/she killed. These people will see their death as martyrdom, or something equal. So what is the difference between one person's holy war and another person's terrorism?
my heart goes out to those who have been personally touched by murder or other vicious crimes. I'm thankful I don't know that kind of loss, but possibly if I did, then I could make a definite decision on this one. For now, I'll stay on the fence.
It is wholly wrong to take anyone's life for any reason whatsoever.
IMHO.
Gretchen
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