Reduced to tears

Hi all,
Just found this site yesterday, read as much as I could, bought the CG book and read it. My hair is s-wavy on top and spiral underneath, 2c and down to my butt. It's always been challenging to keep curly that long but I've always been willing to put the time and effort into it.

Lately, things are horrible. It is like straw and will NOT absorb any kind of conditioner at all. I have tried almost every kind of product out there and my hair would not take to any drugstore product so always had to use professional products from the salon and now they will not even work. Condioners just sit on top, will not penetrate at all and now it's starting to fall out.

I am having to spend a minimum of 2 hours detangling in the shower slathered in conditioner to attempt to get the wide tooth comb through it and come out with 2 complete handfuls of hair because it is so dry. I'm to the point that I actually cried today and I am not a cryer.

I tried cowash today and that was a 2 hour freezing in the shower with masses of my hair all atound me cryfest. I have no idea what my properties are and will need to get tested, but until then I don't think I can take 1 more day of this. HELP??
I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
Texture: Medium
Porosity: Over porous
Elasticity: Normal
Density: Normal=ii
My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
«13

Comments

  • RimiRimi Posts: 2,001Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Tracey4444 wrote: »
    Hi all,
    Just found this site yesterday, read as much as I could, bought the CG book and read it. My hair is s-wavy on top and spiral underneath, 2c and down to my butt. It's always been challenging to keep curly that long but I've always been willing to put the time and effort into it.

    Lately, things are horrible. It is like straw and will NOT absorb any kind of conditioner at all. I have tried almost every kind of product out there and my hair would not take to any drugstore product so always had to use professional products from the salon and now they will not even work. Condioners just sit on top, will not penetrate at all and now it's starting to fall out.

    I am having to spend a minimum of 2 hours detangling in the shower slathered in conditioner to attempt to get the wide tooth comb through it and come out with 2 complete handfuls of hair because it is so dry. I'm to the point that I actually cried today and I am not a cryer.

    I tried cowash today and that was a 2 hour freezing in the shower with masses of my hair all atound me cryfest. I have no idea what my properties are and will need to get tested, but until then I don't think I can take 1 more day of this. HELP??

    Don't worry...it'll be all right! Let's see if we can't help you :)

    What products are you using? You say that you use loads of conditioner and they still don't work. Perhaps they're loaded down with proteins or silicones?
    21 y/o lifelong natural {4a-O ; spongy ; coarse ; dense ; MBL stretched}

    products {'poo: TJTTT shampoo | RO: TJTTT Condish | LI/style: TJTTT Condish, homemade cocoa butter cream | DC: condish + ayurvedic powder(s), Aussie 3MMM Treatment | PT: condish + NPF | oils: castor oil, grapeseed oil | other treatments: probiotics, tea rinses, AVG rinse/spritz, oil rinse | sealing method: LC sometimes O}

    long-term: HL stretched, BSL unstretched

    CG-friendly Products List!
  • Gilly07Gilly07 Posts: 95Registered Users
    Awwww, that's terrible:sad:
    I would suggest clarifying first, my hair is know to be damn cranky at times and that usually beats it into submission for a while.
    Can you post your full routine? Maybe we can see something that might be a problem?
    One thing that gave me amazing slip was a recipe from another hair site, it was 1/2 cup of cone free conditioner, 1/2 cup of warm water and a teaspoon of citric acid, put it all in a bottle and mix it up, try it as a CO, I found it gave me serious slip, I wet my hair very well first, applied it and smooshed it all over my hair, left it on while I did the rest of my shower then rinsed it really well.
    It MAY help, it may not, but its worth a try.
    Sending you lots of hugs, its no fun when your hair makes you cry!
  • BlackAngelPlayahBlackAngelPlayah Posts: 1,419Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ((Hugs)) We all have hard days. My hair makes me wanna just CHOKE it sometimes.

    I tried CG and cowashing was just NOT the cheese! My hair was great the first 2 weeks.. Then it all went down hill. My hair looked sh'tty, my scalp was irritated and sore and my hair just didn't feel or look good. I guess it's not for everyone.

    I'm sure you'll find your perfect routine. :)

    Jen :D


    😜🍸Sent LIVE from my JPhone 4 using some CurlTalk app. 😜🍸

    http://AfroCurls.wordpress.com
    :afro:FroZen:afro:
  • RusycurlyRusycurly Posts: 717Registered Users
    I'm sorry that you are going through that. Check to see if your conditioners have silicones because that could be why it's not absorbing. If your hair is falling out a lot I'll recommend you buy some Neelibhringadi oil (you can get it online). It literary saved my hair when it was falling out in handfuls. It stops the shedding within a few applications. Hope you find a solution to your problem.
    Hair: 3a, normal porosity and elasticity
    My hair loves: Vatika and Bhringraj oils, adores henna.
    My HGs: Bobeam's shampoo bars, CJAO, CJRM, Original Moxie's Hair Bling, Terressentials,
    :wav:
    Let's hear it for beautiful curls!!!
  • GretchenGretchen Administrator Posts: 10,840Administrators, Moderators Administrator
    So sorry you're having a rough time of it, Tracey. Hang around her and we'll get you all fixed up. The ladies have offered some great advice.

    Gretchen
    NaturallyCurly.com co-founder
    3A

    You are beautiful!
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Silicones (ingredients ending with 'cone, 'xane, maybe others that I've forgotten - it's been so long since I've switched around and had to pay attention) and mineral oil or petrolatum in products all coat my hair and prevent moisture from getting in.

    If you're going to co-wash, you first need to be sure to do a sulfate wash to be sure to get all of that off. Then co-washing has a better chance of working for you.

    However, being a 2c, it may not ever work well for you. You may find you always need to do the occasional low-poo (wash with sulfate-free cleanser). I can't just co-wash myself - it's not enough for either my scalp or my hair.
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    Wow Ladies,
    I'm really thankful for the wonderful support. My husband doesn't quite know what to say or do right now so he just runs, lol! I think I understand why people go postal now ;). I've only ever been able to use 1 drug store type Aussie moist and even that didn't work well or for very long, so would have to mix & alternate with salon products.
    I've been using Matrix Curl Life or Matrix sleek & Shine which worked once in a while, Redken anything does't really work for me b/c I think I'm protein sensitive. Tried Wen and that was a disaster. Sleek & Shine oil serum does ok until the next day and then is overly dry and not crazy about the greasy feel. A friend recommended Dove which worked for a day :(. I can't get Loreal Line even remotely 1/2 way through my hair. The only thing that would work was Paul Mitchel Original Detangler and now that won't work any more. My hair does respond well to any milk products like Matrix Curl Life (they don't make any more) and GF sleek & Shine Smoothing Milk.
    Has anyone else had the problem of anthing store bought no matter what kind not working at all? The Wen is sulfate free but has cones.
    I have only ever used wide tooth combed conditioner saturated in the shower, never brushed after getting out. Hope I answered all the questions. I'm so afraid to get in the shower again :(
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    My hair is pretty picky. I don't do well with any drugstore or standard brand.

    You could order samples of higher end stuff from Kathymack.

    Straw hair with breakage sounds like it could be too much protein. It can be hard to cut since it's in almost everything.


    Siri types my posts for me.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Your hair sounds a lot like mine was when I learned about CGing.

    I think you have silicone build up, and that you'd benefit from doing a clarifying wash with a silicone free sulfate shampoo. You could get a travel sized bottle of generic baby shampoo, or a regular sized bottle of either VO5 Herbal Escapes or Suave Naturals shampoo for about $1; and any of them would do just fine.

    After that, I'd recommend doing a co-wash (as in the repeat step in lather, rinse and repeat), then condition and finger comb, scrunch excess water out, then gel in, and scrunch again using a smooth surfaced towel.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • plunkybugplunkybug Posts: 2,526Registered Users
    Definitely check that you aren't using silicones. You might also benefit from

    1) adding honey to your cone free conditioner

    2) pre-pooing with coconut oil

    You might just need a few good deep treatments like Curl Junkie Curl Rehab or Spiral Solutions Deeply Decadent Moisture Treatment. Try leaving your conditioner on for an hour or more, and if the conditioner has oils and/or butters, try putting your hair in a plastic bag covered by a heated towel to help the oils penetrate better.

    Good luck.


    Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

    2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

    Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

    Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showpost.php?p=1252125&postcount=59

  • proudcurlygirlyproudcurlygirly Posts: 478Registered Users
    :sad1:Aww, I feel for you Tracey. Although I have nothing constructive to add (you've been given some great advice by the learned curlies above), I just wanted to say hang on in there, with trial (and sometimes error), you'll get to learn what your hair likes and dislikes and with the right products and technique, your hair will soon start to respond in a positive way.

    Best wishes.:icon_smile:
    :icon_smile: UK Curly
    Curl type : Boticelli, 3a, loose curls
    Porosity : High
    Texture : Fine/medium (I think!)
    Co-wash/rinse out/leave in : L'oreal Full Restore 5, GFR&S, Schwarzkopf Bio Pomegranite
    Gels : Umberto Giannini Flirty Curls Scrunching Jelly
    Finish product : Boots Naked Style Frizz Fighter Serum or a pea-sized blob of condish smoothed over canopy
    CG since Feb 2011
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    OK, pity party over. I'm a tough Alaskan Chick so decided to get on w/this already and here's how yesterday went:

    There was a only a couple of replies at that point. regarding the cone's probably being the culprit (and I suspect our 40 and 50 below zero temps haven't exactly helped my case either).

    Went running to PJ aresenal and you guessed it. Not one single solitary product was unevil. So, the garbage man is gonna freak out when he gets my dumpster full b/c I refuse to "regift" this evilness to anyone I know.

    So, went to our version of Sally's Beauty Supply and was absolutely disgusted. There was not 1 product that didn't have at least 1 of the evils (cones/sulfates) in it. I cannot believe how bad these companies flat out lie & get away w/it claiming that their products are all natural. It's my personal belief there is going to be a special place in hell for them and they are all going to be suffering what I, you and others went through and/or are going through...but their special hell will be going through it for ETERNITY :twisted: muhahahaha!

    Then remembered our 1 health food store in town and went in their like a raving maniac trying to explain 2 hour showers/cones/proteins/sulfates/hair fall out, etc. very desperately/aggressively to the poor clerks working there. No, I didn't get arrested, but I think it is only b/c my hubby is an Alaska State Trooper...But yesterday--I'm sure I could have taken him and gotten his taser. :angry5:

    These poor clerks have not a clue and their own particular hair was not very encouraging. Sat down on the floor in the aisle and began my undergraduate core classes of correct hair cair products 101 and believe I obtained my associates after 3 hours.

    Forgive my lack of the appropriate abbreviations for now just to get this out then I'll promise I'll start using them in future posts. I decided on Nature's Gate Herbal Shampoo and Conditioner, Giovanni Wellness Conditioner Step 2, California Baby calming Hair Detangler, Seven Wonders Miracle Oil, Lavender Oil and Vanilla Oil. $118 later.

    Woo Hoo! I now had hope. Home I go and walk around my nemesis shower for hours procrastinating out of fear (but in my defense, I did threaten it). Finally, I get enough ying-yangs to take it on.

    Someone said use sulfate to get the gunk out and the only thing I had was Aussie Moist Shampoo, did that and followed with Natures gate Herbal Conditioner. 1 hour later w/my trusty wide tooth comb and and another huge handful of hair loss later it wasn't working, then while still in the same shower I added the Giovanni Conditioner on top of the Nature's Gate Conditioner, which only took 1 hour more and another huge handful of hair loss later. I actually sprained my neck from these last 3 days of 2 hour showers of trying to detangle, as an added fun bonus.

    It was here, I got out and while still dripping I added Seven Wonders Miracle Oil ingredients list is:
    Olive Oil/Canola Oil/Wheat Germ Oil/Sweet Almond Oil/Sesame Seed Oil/Castor Oil/Safflower Oil/Dimethicone/Vitamin E/Vitamins A & D/Burdock Root/Chamomile/Hyssop/Henna/Alfalfa/Sage/Goldenseal/Slippery Elm Bark/Sheep Sorrell/Wheat Germ/Cherry Bark/Comfrey/Black Walnut/Yarrow/Fragrance and saturated my whole entire head, put it up in a bun, took a ton of Motrin every 4 hours, laid in bed with a neck roll support until this morning. Would have killed for a Vicoden but don't have any, lol.

    I know the 7 wonders has dimethicone, but really needed all the oils to get the hair (straw) pliable enough to get a finger through it. Which, I can now- with it semi-dry coated in oil. That my friends is quite the step-up. Neck is a little better, but needs more motrin and neckroll rest time.

    So here I sit decidedly indecisive on how to proceed. Looks like all the wonderful helpful guru's think clarification is the key, then on to cowash/no poo and low poo only when necessary. Which brings me to a few questions:

    1. Is clarifying at this point a good idea now that I am soaked in oil and can get my fingers through it? Or, should I just cowash from here? I'm so scared if I clarify it now, that my hair cannot take it and it will return to the same disaster and lose my remaining 2 hairs? lol

    2. I know CG is big on lavender oil, but I really don't like the gramma smell. Would vanilla essential oil be an ok substitute?

    You have no idea how much I appreciate this ladies and I believe it was you all that kept me from becoming the next episode of "Cops". Bad Boyz, Bad Boyz. :D
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I really don't get why you're having so much trouble detangling - mine is 2c/3A and though it's not that long right now, it has been as long as yours, and I've never had that kind of trouble. Five to ten minutes is a long time for me :dontknow:

    Oddly, many oils can make my hair straw-like and tangly, especially coconut oil, and they're hard to remove from my hair - co-washing definitely isn't enough. Yet other people's drink oils up. I guess it depends on your porosity, which we don't know anything about. Nor about your texture - whether your hair is coarse or fine.

    The ends of mine also get tangly when I'm in need of a trim and/or protein. If your hair is fine textured (the individual hairs are fine - not the same as the overall density), you're more apt to need protein. If coarser, too much protein might be part of the problem.

    None of the new products you bought are that commonly used here, so I don't know anything about their slip, but I'd think that would be key for you. Seems I've heard GF Triple Nutrition being mentioned as having excellent slip - I tried it and I think I remember that being the case. I never reused it because its oils didn't agree with me, you might like it, especially if you find your hair does like oils.

    What in particular are you wanting lavendar oil to do for you? That would determine whether you could use vanilla oil for the same - don't remember hearing of anyone using it for anything more than it's fragrance.

    The dimethicone in that one product may not be that big a deal for you unless you're wanting to be strictly CG (many of us aren't, especially wavies). If not, if it has PEG or PPG in front of it, it's more water soluble, and the higher the accompanying number is, the more soluble, too. If that's the case, a low-poo with just a surfactant like coco betaine will easily remove it - no sulfates required. The same is true for most 'cones anyway, but I think there's a sticky in the Newbie forum for a list of them from an old Curl Chemist article. You might want to check it out for the particular silicone that the 7 Wonders stuff contains.

    Sorry, for throwing so much out at you, but maybe something will 'speak' to you and help you narrow down the problem.

    Good luck!
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    Hey Ya Wurly,

    Thanx for responding. Just had a trim, but my hair has been so "slithered", i think that has alot to do with it the tangling. Kind of like thinned out layered, so each strand grabs on to the other and their Bff's causing mass tangles and since every co i use would no longer penetrate, it was basically starving of thirst underneath the cones.

    That was the entire list of ingredients in the 7 wonders, but it really isn't made for hair, just mostly skin, cuticle stuff which is why you probably hadn't heard of it. But, I was absolutely desperate to be able to get some type of moisture in it. So, it's still coated with the oil that dried in it last night and I'm waiting for for further advice on weather or not it would be a good idea to clarify at this point or just low poo it out and cowash before I take on my arch enemy a/k/a the shower.

    The lavender oil is so highly recommended by cg for cleansing and reviving and will do it if I have to but was wondering if vanilla essential oil would work since I am a vanilla whore, lol?

    Super thanx again!
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
  • crimsonshedemoncrimsonshedemon Posts: 2,098Registered Users
    The weather has to be affecting your hair.
    What are the properties of your hair? I know it's very dry but is it fine, normal or coarse? If it's truly coarse, protein is not typically your friend.
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/67218-texture-porosity-other-hair-type-madness.html

    I would wash with a sulfate shampoo (make sure it doesn't have silicones) and start over. If you have to use silicones, you'll just have to cleanse more often to avoid build up. Cleansing every few days is far superior to cleansing daily with sulfates.

    Can you run a humidifier in your bedroom? With the temps you have, isn't the air dry? Humidity, Humectants and Hair

    Check out Live Curly Live Free - Home
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    Hi Crimson,
    It is dry here, but can't run a humidifier due to it ruins the windows when it's really cold outside, so will need to get creative.

    Without being officially tested, I think:
    Texture: medium/coarse
    Porosity: over porous- or high porous
    Elasticity: normal
    Density: normal
    S-wavy-on top and spirals underneath, sp probably 2c.
    Doesn't like protein, does ok w/oils and milkie products.

    I don't have sulfate cone free right now, just non sulfate. Do you thing baking soda or ACV could be used instead to clarify & start over?
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
  • rainboerainboe Posts: 284Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    You have to use a shampoo with either sulfates or coco betaine to remove silicones from the hair. The problem with silicones is that they build up on your hair unless you use harsh cleaners to remove them. Here's a link outlining the basics of the Curl Girl Method: How to Follow the Curly Girl Method for Curly Hair: 15 steps (with pictures) - wikiHow

    It's really surprising how long it take you to detangle your hair. How are you doing it? Are you starting at the bottom and working up? I agree it might be good to try Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition conditioner, that gives a lot of slip. Maybe you could try doing a rough detangle with you fingers, to get out the bigger knots, then use the comb. My hair is usually easier to detangle when it's really wet, so it might also help to keep rewetting it so it's never too dry. Also, sleeping on a satin pillowcase, a satin bonnet, or with your hair braided could reduce the formation of tangles.

    Your hair might be really dry, which might be causing the tangles and ickiness. For a quick deep treatment, I mix my regular conditioner with honey and olive oil, then I leave that on my damp hair for about 30 minutes. You could try that. Also, before showering you could put oil on your hair to already start softening it up.
    Fine Texture, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity. Dyed to brown a few months ago.
    Lowpoo: Trader Joe's TTT Shampoo
    Rinse Out:
    Yes to Carrots, AOHR, Aubrey Organics Rosemary Peppermint
    LI: Yes to Carrots
    Stylers: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, LA Looks Sports, Suave Professionals Captivating Curls Whipped Mousse
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Ok. I suggest the BS/ACV clarifying wash. It will remove cones. You can add the BS to your co-wash or low-poo, and then mix the ACV with your RO or detangler.

    I can second the GFTN! Great slip, great moisture!

    Are you SURE your hair doesn't like protein?

    As for oils, I can recommend coconut oil (especially as a pre-poo), and jojoba. It's very smoothing, almost like a shine serum, and coats the hair. I use it to seal, and to touch up frizz.

    Are you braiding at night? Or doing something else to help overnight tangles?

    I just read on here that one girl puts her hair up in a pineapple at night and then puts a plastic treatment cap over it. Then overnight her head gives off heat and moisture inside the plastic cap, and it moisturizes her hair. Since you can't do a humidifier, perhaps that's an option for you?

    And I would do bi-weekly DT's for a while. Maybe even overnight!

    Hope that helps!
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    Hey ya Rainboe,

    That really helped me understand that I need a sulfate or betaine w/no cones to get all the bad stuff out before I start cg correctly. Went out and found Giovanni step 1 poo with chinese botanicals that has betaine but no cones. I will take that on in the evil shower tomorrow b/c I just don't think my neck could take it til then, lol

    So I will use that, then condish w/nature's gate herbal and after that begin cowashing w/out sls and cones.

    I've always treated my hair like it was fragile, only wide tooth combed in the shower saturated w/co from bottom up and silk pillowcase on instinct before I found this site. But yes, it is very, very dry due to sls & cones it sounds like.

    Thanx everyone so much for all your help and I'm crossing my fingers!!
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    Hi Jas,

    No, I'm not really sure that it doesn't like protein, but everytime I would use Joico KPak's or alot of Redken, it gets really dry & starts coming out in fistfuls so I am thinking protein is the culprit. But now that I am starting the cg, we will see as I've read that alot change after that and are able to use it.

    I was gonna do the BS/ACV another poster thought it would be better to clrify w/SLS & no cones to begin, so went out & got GV to start tomorrow & co, then begin cowash after that.

    Great idea w/the pineapple w/a cap I will start that as well. I haven't done the braid thing at night, but will try it. But was wondering do those affect 2nd day hair?
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
  • Finch00Finch00 Posts: 190Registered Users
    -I second jojoba oil, it's great for itchy scalp

    Also, I wash my hair leaning under the tub faucet, in my opinion it's easier than when I'm in the shower.

    It took me a while to figure out what products were good for my hair, I've spent a lot of time on this website.
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    You're so right Finch, the oils that soaked in have made quite a difference so pretty anxious to try the rest of the regime now and I've just spent all my neck healing and oil soaking time reading, reading and more reading, lol!

    Thanx so much gals!
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Tracey4444 wrote: »
    Hi Jas,

    No, I'm not really sure that it doesn't like protein, but everytime I would use Joico KPak's or alot of Redken, it gets really dry & starts coming out in fistfuls so I am thinking protein is the culprit. But now that I am starting the cg, we will see as I've read that alot change after that and are able to use it.

    I was gonna do the BS/ACV another poster thought it would be better to clrify w/SLS & no cones to begin, so went out & got GV to start tomorrow & co, then begin cowash after that.

    Great idea w/the pineapple w/a cap I will start that as well. I haven't done the braid thing at night, but will try it. But was wondering do those affect 2nd day hair?

    Getting dry after a PT is common, even for those who have hair that LOVES protein. It's recommended that you do a DT after every PT. in your case, though, since you are so dry, maybe skip the PT's for now and just consider products with protein in them. (Unless you discover that your hair really DOESNT Like protein at all. But it sounds like you have some damage, so it might help with that.)

    The one time SLS and then no cones will do the trick! I just suggested the BS/ACV bc I thought you wanted to stay away from SLS. I would still consider mixing a little ACV into some RO and doing your final rinse with that. ACV will help smoothe the cuticle. Don't do it EVERY time, and you don't need much, but it may help some.

    As far as braids and 2nd day hair - some people use braids to GET 2nd day hair - waives especially! Anytime I do a braid at night, I put coconut oil on dry hair, braid, then off to bed! If you like the cap thing AND the braid thing, you might try the cap over the braid, too, and see how your results look!

    And as for oils - olive oil is very heavy and penetrates the hair shaft. You might have good results (I know I always do) by adding some of that and some honey to your RO. Especially to for a DT!

    Coconut oil is great for a pre-poo. I'll put it on my hair overnight then wash in the morning. I also mix some with some LI sometimes! It's a light oil, but also penetrates the hair shaft.

    Jojoba oil is considered one that is very close to our own sebum. It's great on dry hair for smoothing frizzies and adding moisture w/o grease, and great for sealing on wet hair (over LI, under products).

    Sounds like you need to get and keep more moisture in your hair, and perhaps repair some damage. But moisture is likely the key!

    GL!!
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    Jas,
    Really helpful stuff & I will save this & so that I can refer back to it cuz it's all alot to soak in at 1st, so I don't want to lose any of the info.

    Also, I think that you are my hair twin from what I've read in your other posts and especially one that you said that you thought you were another poster's hair twin and I looked at her pic and bang! Exact match! So when are you gonna post an avatar? Lol
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    If it's still that dry, I'd DT more frequently than bi-weekly, as well as experiment with conditioning with something besides the Nature's Gate - no more often than anyone ever mentions the brand, I have to question whether it's one of the best conditioners in a case where that's what is critically needed.

    Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose is very moisturizing and is all natural like NG - used to be very widely used here and is still a staple for many. Though I love many Giovanni products, I don't think any of their conditioners are quite so moisturizing. You might, however, try using their Direct Leave-In Conditioner as well as whatever good rinse-out conditioner you settle on.

    I agree w/Jas76 about being sure your hair doesn't like protein - when I first joined here, everyone was talking about their protein sensitivity, so I jumped on that band wagon. Found out much later just how thirsty for it my hair is. Now it's the single most useful tool in my arsenal.
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    Huh Wurly,

    Definite food for thought. Once I get this mess worked out and get a program up & running, I will play w/the protein to see.

    For now, I am at the health food store AGAIN getting your Aubrey Honeysuckle to use for my date w/my nemesis I have in a few. I just don't wanna take any chances, so figured I better use what you recommend for the co (aubrey) since it's gonna be crucial right now!!

    I'll post results in a little while, provided the health food store don't call the guys in white to come pick me up w/a pretty new jacket to wear :)
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Lol! Yeah, sorry! It IS a lot - and I was even holding back some so I wouldn't overload you! Haha

    And I know... I need to figure out the avatar thing! Lol! I did post a couple pics - they are on my profile - but I'm a little curlier now.

    Not sure if we are hair twins or not - didn't you say you were 2b/c? I'm more of a 2c/3a, some 3b underneath. BUT, we may indeed have similar properties! That's more important than curl type, anyhow.

    Let us know how this attempt goes! And keep in mind, it's a process. You'll get some immediate results from the right products, but overall it takes a little time to get your hair back into shape! :)
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • CurliLocksCurliLocks Posts: 10,573Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Great tips so far! I'm just wondering how often you wash, rinse or thoroughly wet your hair in the shower? It may be too much. My hair is on the drier side of normal, as is my skin (except for my oily face!) so I can't wash or rinse my hair daily, it's too much. I wash or condition wash every 4 days or so. That could be part of your problem, water can actually make hair more dry.
    SF Bay Area, CA * "The Angel-Goddess-Guru of Haircoloring" :D
    3b/c/a mix. medium texture, low porosity
    My Motto: Strand Test! some hair pics
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] -- gone, but never forgotten.
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    The water is more alkaline than hair - that's why it can be drying. Which is why I suggested adding some ACV to your hair's diet! ;)

    But you do want tiger moisture into your hair, and KEEP it there! So when you DO wash or rinse, be sure you are conditioning and probably sealing!

    I know my hair tangles easily, so I can't go more than a couple days without detangling in the shower.
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • WickedWurlysWickedWurlys Posts: 74Registered Users
    Hi Ladies,

    The nemesis won again, HOWEVER I gave it a black eye this time. So, I did the GV SLS which felt a teensy bit better than the evils I had been using. Yep, the shower looked like a crime scene investigation site w/conditioner splatter, cast off and hair fibers everywhere.

    I had to use 3/4 bottle of the AO Honeysuckle and left it on for 45 minutes before I even attempted to detangle. Still got handfuls of hair and even had to cut one dreadloc out cuz their was no hope and it would have caused more damage to the rest, so RIP sucka!!

    Remember this was after 2 days of 7 oils soaking on my hair before I attempted this. But I really attribute most of today's catastrophe due to having to SLS. I firmly believe that now that the SLS is out of the way and I can begin cowashing that it will become alot better.

    So then, I ploppity-plunked. BTW, I really think this should actually be called the "Aunt Jemima" b/c the plop and the plunk names are misleading. I remember when I 1st began reading and people would say they plopped for 45 minutes, I was envisioning in my head a gal w/wet hair over a flour sack material raising and lowering her head for 45 minutes, lol and was thinking, "oh hell no!!" I draw the line!! I was so relieved to see that it was just an Aunt Jemima kerchief minus the red checkers. (I'm such a dork) :toothy3:

    I left most of the AO in my hair and Aunt Jemima'd it, (hee hee) for about 45 minutes. Took it out and it felt ALOT better. then used a CG friendly baby detangler of lavender oil, etc. and let it air dry.

    It's still really dry, then began to frizz, so put some of the 7 oils scrunched in which I really don't like to do cuz oil looks like crap on this wavy.

    I didn't expect to find the HG coming straight out of the chute and do realize that this is gonna be a CG journey, not instant gratification (dangit).

    So all in all, I do believe it was a good step forward and really want to thank each and every one of you that has been helping me. Definitely your good deed for the year by chalking another one up under suicide prevention :happy6:. Now, I don't have to call the hotline, whew.

    Jas, your profile avie doesn't show up on my phone, or on my computer. But, I am a 2c/3a and mostly 3a from the ears down. Wurly, my hair looks alot like your avie too. So, is it possible that both of you are my hair sistah's?

    <Insert Jennifer Hudson singing, "I am yoooou...you are meeee" here>
    I Have The Wickedest Wurly's Ever, Ugh!! 2c top/3a bottom
    Until I get my hair analysis back, I think:
    Texture: Medium
    Porosity: Over porous
    Elasticity: Normal
    Density: Normal=ii
    My quest: 20 minute showers and normal amounts of co!!!
    CG since 2/26/12-Protein Hater
    Cowash: Suave Naturals (except coconut)
    RO & LI: GV 50:50/Tresseme Naturals
    Gel/mousse: HESMU & HETT

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