CurlTalk

White people and racism... no, it's not what you think

CalypsoCalypso Posts: 142Registered Users
First off I just want to say that if anyone quickly goes off the bend about what I've said by thinking it's BS or whatnot WITHOUT reading my post and especially because they have not watched the videos then you are showing CurlTalk your true colors on this topic.

Some people here have said that they would be quick to question someone if there was a racist remark, for example, directed towards whites but it's a lot easier to say that then to actually do it. I keep hearing things like "white privilege", "white supremacy" and so forth which is why I decided to actually question it and did more research on this rather then blindly go by what I've heard all of my life.

One of the most recent things I came across here on CurlTalk was a white woman saying about what she had endured racism from living in a community where there were very few, if any white people but of course, she was told that that was different(as it often is) and cannot be compared to racism towards black people. WTF?!?! Seriously? I could not believe that even though I see it time and time again which led me to some interesting findings that came from sources that was both unexpected yet great to see. Racism is all the same no matter what color you are. It is never acceptable for one group of people yet wrong for another. I'm I the only one that sees this? Apparently not.

According to many here and in general, white people have basically always had it made all throughout history. For as long as I can remember, I always felt that something was off with that. Every person of every skin color has experience good and bad throughout history so it's simply foolish to say that only one group had it good. Something was being left out and now I see why. My research led me to Youtube where I found quite a few people's videos(people who did their homework) talking about white slavery(yes, you heard me! White Slavery!) as well as how black people need to stop blaming and hating on white people for everything going on. That and about how people(asians, whites, natives, etc.) need to start standing up for themselves more when it comes to things like this.

Now here's the thing that really caught my eye which is why I'm enlarging and bolding this next part. Not one of these people in the videos is white! Every time I come across someone talking about white slavery or how so many blacks hate on whites is always being said by black people, more specifically, black men! One would just assume that it would be white people talking about this but no, it's black people which is even better because if a white person were to make videos on these topics they would get trashed left, right and center but people are willing to listen if it comes from a black, native, etc. so I truly commend these people for opening up.

Below are some quotes from the various videos. I put the username of the person, the time it is found on(and the link to it) that I found to be really profound although everyone of every race, skin color or which ever term you want to use, can learn a lot from each second of each video... if you are willing to be open-minded about it, that is. ;) There are some slang words in these quotes that I really don't even like saying so if you see a word filled with symbols or asterisks, that's why. :)

Stand Up, Speak Out White People by joegully
The White Man owes you nothing, Black People by joegully
White Slavery 101* what they never told you in History Class pt. 2 by vegasview77
White Slavery 101* what they never told you in History Class pt. 1 by vegasview77
BLACK SLAVE vs WHITE SLAVE by sibusiso
The White Man by DA*****WITDATATTOOS


"The truth about slavery is that it was about economics. Production. That's what slavery was about." - sibusiso 0:50

"Basically what I want to say is that racism is about wealth, economics and power. You have to understand that it's just a way of dividing people."
- sibusiso 2:19

"That's what the slave masters want you to do. They want us to taunt each other, waste time and taunt each other about race 'Your black and I'm white and you're black, white, this, that', that is a waste of time. You are playing the game. You are playing the division game." - sibusiso 5:11

"I'm trying to understand the concept of why black people hate the white man. I get hate in the white man sometimes but sometimes it gets to be so extreme even to me that it just blows my ****ing mind. You have black people going on about the plight, my age, on the plight of the blacks, us but they use slavery to justify everything!"
- DA*****WITDATATTOOS 0:40 I'd post more from DA*****WITDATATTOOS' video but he has way too many good points to list! You'll have to watch it to see what I'm talking about.

"They tried to clean it up which is why it's kind of tied into Moors history is because simutaniously, as white people were being denied their history of white slavery for over a hundred years in America, they were also simutaniously conditioning black people and robbing them of their history as well of which you will recognize as being a Moor, a Blackamoor here in America, throughout the Carribean. They were shifting that information. Burning books, hiding information, giving it to their secret societies, all simutainiously so white people were in the dark, black people were in the dark. The people who were knowledgeable were the ruling class." - vegasview77 pt. 2 4:14

I'd post more good quotes from vegasview77 but he has way too many to type out so it's best to just watch the videos from start to finish.

"You believe that the white man owes you something because you were so-called descendants of slaves but here's the thing, were you the actual person who was picking up the cotton? No." - joegully 0:53

"So don't come to me with this crying nonsense, about this little n***** nonsense about this, the white man owes you something. The white man owes you nothing! Now you n*****'s need to stop this nonsense because it's stupid!" - joegully 8:10

"I'm glad she's speaking out. I'm glad that she's telling the truth about a lot of the things that is going on in this country. That whites or asians or hispanics or indians or even any other enthicity or race or creed cannot speak about because black folks get so sensitive about that and it's true. There is a double standard." - joegully 3:32 Continue watching for his explanation on this. This video also talked a lot about Obama which again, he made a lot of good points about.

I often wonder if people really want equality in todays world. If you do then wake up and start acting like it by educating yourself! All of this hate and playing the blame game is total BS. Don't go around saying you want equality yet you are quick to blame a specific group of people for everything under the sun or claim that all people are the same yet you throw around some dumbass superiority complex. People have been sectioned off for far too long and it's time we all took a stand on this and start coming together as one instead of constantly dividing each other. That is why I brought this up. A lot of people say they want equality yet they are quick to try to hide this subject(or anything else they don't like the sounds of) under the mat. In order to want equality and to put a stop to racism, we all have to be willing to learn about each other and not brush off something that you may not like the sound of.

Someone once said in a thread "I've read quite a bit on this site, and CurlTalk is the most open, unprejudiced community I've ever come across...". Let's see if it really is. I voiced my opinions on this so let's see how the rest of CurlTalk feels about this. I look forward to reading your responses.
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Comments

  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    I think you lost me at "questioning" white privilege and white supremacy.

    Your post suggests you don't think those are real. If you don't understand how those work, you won't get the issues and you won't get any respect for your views from me and probably from others who get the issues.

    The flaw in your logic is that you're assuming that Blacks or other people of colour "acting out" towards white people, is, and should be, seen as equal with white racism towards Black people. Not everyone shares that view. If you look at racism as having a power or institutionalized component, they are in no way the same. To me, this is the only legitimate way to view racism. You're also assuming that if a racialized person acts out towards a white person, it is out of dislike or a feeling of inferiority of white people. I believe that that is rarely, if ever, the case.


    As to Black people talking about Blacks being racist against whites, that's a form of internalized racism - trying to gain acceptance and respect from white people by identifying with them and saying what they want to hear, or trying to escape the pain of their own situation by minimizing it and turning the focus elsewhere.

    I find it funny that you talk about open-mindedness like you want people of colour to be open-minded to the "racism" white people face, but you have completely closed your mind to legitimate historic and social evidence.

    I am not sure what the quote about slavery being about economics is supposed to prove. That doesn't change that a certain group of people was targetted in the name of economics. And the numbers show that Black slavery was far greater in scope and damage than any white slavery or any form of slavery in history. Lots of people have opinions like the ones you quoted - doesn't make them educated or informed or logical.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • mrspoppersmrspoppers Posts: 7,223Registered Users
    1. White privilege and white supremacy are two different things.

    2. You are confusing racism with prejudice.

    3. Saying something ignorant like "Every person of every skin color has experience(d) good and bad throughout history so it's simply foolish to say that only one group had it good," makes it really difficult for me to take the rest of your post seriously.

    4. The fact that some black people hate white people for, seemingly, no other reason than the color of their skin, does not constitute racism. (See #2.)
    When are women going to face the fact that they don’t know their own bodies as well as men who have heard things?

    Don Langrick
    Bonsai Culturist
  • HoneycurlsHoneycurls Posts: 1,889Registered Users
    Ya, it's actually exactly what I thought...again....
    OK, I admit it.....I'm an alias! I wasn't born with the name Honeycurls!
    :lurk: Dood, get over it; there's no time limit on lurking.

    I so busy runnin' allllllll over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me! :confused5::laughing5::jocolor:
  • SariaSaria Posts: 15,963Registered Users
    Actually, it's exactly what I thought it would be. I got through about two paragraphs and then it was tl: dr time.

    tumblr_lg3xuqexGe1qdtfdbo1_500.gif

    tumblr_lg598sGSMX1qa2xrno1_500.gif

    a68988db-df59-fd08.jpg
    por-que-no-te-callas.jpg
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    My paper cut is just as bad as your terminal cancer, and if you can't put complaining about your cancer aside to focus on MY PAPER CUT, you are a horrible, unfair person!
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Also, I would suggest getting info from books and journals and government sources etc. rather than from clueless ignoramuses on youtube. If you are truly interested, I am sure a few of us can suggest some resources.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 8,660Registered Users
    Just another bored/lonely person trying to start some drama for their entertainment. I guess the holidays bring them out.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • HoneycurlsHoneycurls Posts: 1,889Registered Users
    Amneris wrote: »
    Also, I would suggest getting info from books and journals and government sources etc. rather than from clueless ignoramuses on youtube. If you are truly interested, I am sure a few of us can suggest some resources.


    Lol, I, too, was going to suggest some more in-depth, credible research myself, but I just didn't want to open my own floodgates.

    It's on YouTube, therefore, it MUST be true. Good grief! :laughing5:
    OK, I admit it.....I'm an alias! I wasn't born with the name Honeycurls!
    :lurk: Dood, get over it; there's no time limit on lurking.

    I so busy runnin' allllllll over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me! :confused5::laughing5::jocolor:
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Honeycurls wrote: »
    Amneris wrote: »
    Also, I would suggest getting info from books and journals and government sources etc. rather than from clueless ignoramuses on youtube. If you are truly interested, I am sure a few of us can suggest some resources.


    Lol, I, too, was going to suggest some more in-depth, credible research myself, but I just didn't want to open my own floodgates.

    It's on YouTube, therefore, it MUST be true. Good grief! :laughing5:

    Well, I'm always interested in serious social commentary from someone called "Da (N-word - I assume) wid da tattoos", I don't know about you.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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    534Pm5.png





  • IAmJordanNicoleIAmJordanNicole Posts: 784Registered Users
    Amneris wrote: »
    I think you lost me at "questioning" white privilege and white supremacy.

    Your post suggests you don't think those are real. If you don't understand how those work, you won't get the issues and you won't get any respect for your views from me and probably from others who get the issues.

    The flaw in your logic is that you're assuming that Blacks or other people of colour "acting out" towards white people, is, and should be, seen as equal with white racism towards Black people. Not everyone shares that view. If you look at racism as having a power or institutionalized component, they are in no way the same. To me, this is the only legitimate way to view racism. You're also assuming that if a racialized person acts out towards a white person, it is out of dislike or a feeling of inferiority of white people. I believe that that is rarely, if ever, the case.


    As to Black people talking about Blacks being racist against whites, that's a form of internalized racism - trying to gain acceptance and respect from white people by identifying with them and saying what they want to hear, or trying to escape the pain of their own situation by minimizing it and turning the focus elsewhere.

    I find it funny that you talk about open-mindedness like you want people of colour to be open-minded to the "racism" white people face, but you have completely closed your mind to legitimate historic and social evidence.

    I am not sure what the quote about slavery being about economics is supposed to prove. That doesn't change that a certain group of people was targetted in the name of economics. And the numbers show that Black slavery was far greater in scope and damage than any white slavery or any form of slavery in history. Lots of people have opinions like the ones you quoted - doesn't make them educated or informed or logical.

    I agree with all of this...and let's not forget that not only were black people one slaves, they were also
    considered only partial people.

    Yes, black people can be racist agains whites, but honestly, can you blame some of them?? Have you ever watched Roots, Mississippi Burning, the Freedom Riders?? C'mon, let's be realistic!


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • HoneycurlsHoneycurls Posts: 1,889Registered Users
    Amneris wrote: »
    I think you lost me at "questioning" white privilege and white supremacy.

    Your post suggests you don't think those are real. If you don't understand how those work, you won't get the issues and you won't get any respect for your views from me and probably from others who get the issues.

    The flaw in your logic is that you're assuming that Blacks or other people of colour "acting out" towards white people, is, and should be, seen as equal with white racism towards Black people. Not everyone shares that view. If you look at racism as having a power or institutionalized component, they are in no way the same. To me, this is the only legitimate way to view racism. You're also assuming that if a racialized person acts out towards a white person, it is out of dislike or a feeling of inferiority of white people. I believe that that is rarely, if ever, the case.


    As to Black people talking about Blacks being racist against whites, that's a form of internalized racism - trying to gain acceptance and respect from white people by identifying with them and saying what they want to hear, or trying to escape the pain of their own situation by minimizing it and turning the focus elsewhere.

    I find it funny that you talk about open-mindedness like you want people of colour to be open-minded to the "racism" white people face, but you have completely closed your mind to legitimate historic and social evidence.

    I am not sure what the quote about slavery being about economics is supposed to prove. That doesn't change that a certain group of people was targetted in the name of economics. And the numbers show that Black slavery was far greater in scope and damage than any white slavery or any form of slavery in history. Lots of people have opinions like the ones you quoted - doesn't make them educated or informed or logical.

    I agree with all of this...and let's not forget that not only were black people one slaves, they were also
    considered only partial people.

    Yes, black people can be racist agains whites, but honestly, can you blame some of them?? Have you ever watched Roots, Mississippi Burning, the Freedom Riders?? C'mon, let's be realistic!


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

    No, we can't--not in the world as we know it. Again, there's a profound difference between prejudice and racism. And, yes, you can almost always blame someone for their prejudices. In fact, I hope you were kidding in that last sentence.
    OK, I admit it.....I'm an alias! I wasn't born with the name Honeycurls!
    :lurk: Dood, get over it; there's no time limit on lurking.

    I so busy runnin' allllllll over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me! :confused5::laughing5::jocolor:
  • SariaSaria Posts: 15,963Registered Users
    ^Explaining this to a lot of people goes something like this, though:

    :banghead:
    por-que-no-te-callas.jpg
  • LadyV69LadyV69 Posts: 3,397Registered Users
    There's no way I can take your post seriously. You're mixing up racism and prejudice. Those two are NOT the same whatsoever, although a number of people think they are. To illustrate the difference, anybody can be prejudiced against anybody. So yes, plenty of people of color can be and are prejudiced against whites based on stereotypes that are disbursed throughout the media. Racism on the other hand, means that a group of people have the political and economic power to systemically discriminate against others of a different race, denying them jobs, housing, etc. Blacks still do not have the amount of economic or political power it would take to deny whites anything. Therefore, blacks CANNOT be racist against whites. They can be only be prejudiced against them, whereby whites can be racist against blacks since they have the power to be able to do so.
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  • emthefantasticalemthefantastical Posts: 962Registered Users
    You lost me after "white slavery"
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  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Come on you guys! Why do you do this to yourselves? Leave the troll alone. :confused5:
    < member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

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  • IAmJordanNicoleIAmJordanNicole Posts: 784Registered Users
    Honeycurls wrote: »
    Amneris wrote: »
    I think you lost me at "questioning" white privilege and white supremacy.

    Your post suggests you don't think those are real. If you don't understand how those work, you won't get the issues and you won't get any respect for your views from me and probably from others who get the issues.

    The flaw in your logic is that you're assuming that Blacks or other people of colour "acting out" towards white people, is, and should be, seen as equal with white racism towards Black people. Not everyone shares that view. If you look at racism as having a power or institutionalized component, they are in no way the same. To me, this is the only legitimate way to view racism. You're also assuming that if a racialized person acts out towards a white person, it is out of dislike or a feeling of inferiority of white people. I believe that that is rarely, if ever, the case.


    As to Black people talking about Blacks being racist against whites, that's a form of internalized racism - trying to gain acceptance and respect from white people by identifying with them and saying what they want to hear, or trying to escape the pain of their own situation by minimizing it and turning the focus elsewhere.

    I find it funny that you talk about open-mindedness like you want people of colour to be open-minded to the "racism" white people face, but you have completely closed your mind to legitimate historic and social evidence.

    I am not sure what the quote about slavery being about economics is supposed to prove. That doesn't change that a certain group of people was targetted in the name of economics. And the numbers show that Black slavery was far greater in scope and damage than any white slavery or any form of slavery in history. Lots of people have opinions like the ones you quoted - doesn't make them educated or informed or logical.

    I agree with all of this...and let's not forget that not only were black people one slaves, they were also
    considered only partial people.

    Yes, black people can be racist agains whites, but honestly, can you blame some of them?? Have you ever watched Roots, Mississippi Burning, the Freedom Riders?? C'mon, let's be realistic!


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

    No, we can't--not in the world as we know it. Again, there's a profound difference between prejudice and racism. And, yes, you can almost always blame someone for their prejudices. In fact, I hope you were kidding in that last sentence.

    No I wasn't kidding. For example, my 88 y/o gmom who grew up in south Carolina and had to drink out of water fountains and use both room marked colored, if she is had a hatred for white people, I won't be mad at her for that.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • HoneycurlsHoneycurls Posts: 1,889Registered Users
    Honeycurls wrote: »

    I agree with all of this...and let's not forget that not only were black people one slaves, they were also
    considered only partial people.

    Yes, black people can be racist agains whites, but honestly, can you blame some of them?? Have you ever watched Roots, Mississippi Burning, the Freedom Riders?? C'mon, let's be realistic!


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

    No, we can't--not in the world as we know it. Again, there's a profound difference between prejudice and racism. And, yes, you can almost always blame someone for their prejudices. In fact, I hope you were kidding in that last sentence.

    No I wasn't kidding. For example, my 88 y/o gmom who grew up in south Carolina and had to drink out of water fountains and use both room marked colored, if she is had a hatred for white people, I won't be mad at her for that.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

    Believe me, I understand what you're saying. However, she is lowering herself to that same level--she's making a prejudgement against all white people--retaliatory in nature, yes, but it's still prejudice nonetheless.
    OK, I admit it.....I'm an alias! I wasn't born with the name Honeycurls!
    :lurk: Dood, get over it; there's no time limit on lurking.

    I so busy runnin' allllllll over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me! :confused5::laughing5::jocolor:
  • IAmJordanNicoleIAmJordanNicole Posts: 784Registered Users
    Honeycurls wrote: »
    Honeycurls wrote: »

    No, we can't--not in the world as we know it. Again, there's a profound difference between prejudice and racism. And, yes, you can almost always blame someone for their prejudices. In fact, I hope you were kidding in that last sentence.

    No I wasn't kidding. For example, my 88 y/o gmom who grew up in south Carolina and had to drink out of water fountains and use both room marked colored, if she is had a hatred for white people, I won't be mad at her for that.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

    Believe me, I understand what you're saying. However, she is lowering herself to that same level--she's making a prejudgement against all white people--retaliatory in nature, yes, but it's still prejudice nonetheless.

    I agree and for the record, my gmom holds no grudge toward white people. Neither do I or anyone in my family, but not everyone is so good at forgiving, and I can understand that as well.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Honeycurls wrote: »

    I agree with all of this...and let's not forget that not only were black people one slaves, they were also
    considered only partial people.

    Yes, black people can be racist agains whites, but honestly, can you blame some of them?? Have you ever watched Roots, Mississippi Burning, the Freedom Riders?? C'mon, let's be realistic!


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

    No, we can't--not in the world as we know it. Again, there's a profound difference between prejudice and racism. And, yes, you can almost always blame someone for their prejudices. In fact, I hope you were kidding in that last sentence.

    No I wasn't kidding. For example, my 88 y/o gmom who grew up in south Carolina and had to drink out of water fountains and use both room marked colored, if she is had a hatred for white people, I won't be mad at her for that.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

    I would say that
    a) she probably doesn't "hate" "white people" - she hates the degradation she was forced to live under
    b) she likely has internalized the inferiority she was treated with to some degree and this may manifest as jealousy towards white people expressed as "hatred"
    c) she's unlikely to actually believe that white people are inferior to Black people (even if she says otherwise)
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Honeycurls wrote: »
    Honeycurls wrote: »

    No, we can't--not in the world as we know it. Again, there's a profound difference between prejudice and racism. And, yes, you can almost always blame someone for their prejudices. In fact, I hope you were kidding in that last sentence.

    No I wasn't kidding. For example, my 88 y/o gmom who grew up in south Carolina and had to drink out of water fountains and use both room marked colored, if she is had a hatred for white people, I won't be mad at her for that.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

    Believe me, I understand what you're saying. However, she is lowering herself to that same level--she's making a prejudgement against all white people--retaliatory in nature, yes, but it's still prejudice nonetheless.

    I disagree completely that a person who has been treated as less than human and completely degraded because of who they are and has been taught for years that they are less than another group of people because of who they are who as a result is scarred and may express that with anger or distasteful comments is in any way "lowering" themself to the level of people who committed hate crimes against an entire race of people for their own benefit.

    eta: sorry for the run-on sentence.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    OP, I greatly enjoyed reading your insightful and nuanced take on this difficult topic. It was very thought-provoking! I hope that I'll have a chance to read your opinions on other important issues, such as abortion or the Occupy protests.
  • HoneycurlsHoneycurls Posts: 1,889Registered Users
    See, I think that's very big of your g-ma. I don't know if I could say the same about myself if I'd grown up in those times. Very doubtful, in fact. Taking the higher road and turning the other cheek all the time are emotionally exhausting. But, you can either live a life steeped in hatred or you can try to rise above it. I'm glad your g-ma was able to rise above.

    My theory on "prejudice" is that the ability to recognize and associate physical characteristics with similar or repeated behavior patterns or any other similarities between or among people, places or things in the wild is an innate and crucial survival mechanism. It's how we "learn" and survive. But, our big, advanced human brains allegedly further allow us to make further distinctions and more finely tune this ability. I feel comfortable saying that every red-hot, glowing stove burner is going to burn me. But, I don't think that every blonde-haired, blue-eyed, pale-skinned person wants to see me dead simply because of my ethnic makeup, unless they specifically indicate otherwise, even though there are actually some who do.
    OK, I admit it.....I'm an alias! I wasn't born with the name Honeycurls!
    :lurk: Dood, get over it; there's no time limit on lurking.

    I so busy runnin' allllllll over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me! :confused5::laughing5::jocolor:
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Honeycurls wrote: »
    See, I think that's very big of your g-ma. I don't know if I could say the same about myself if I'd grown up in those times. Very doubtful, in fact. Taking the higher road and turning the other cheek all the time are emotionally exhausting. But, you can either live a life steeped in hatred or you can try to rise above it. I'm glad your g-ma was able to rise above.

    My theory on "prejudice" is that the ability to recognize and associate physical characteristics with similar or repeated behavior patterns or any other similarities between or among people, places or things in the wild is an innate and crucial survival mechanism. It's how we "learn" and survive. But, our big, advanced human brains allegedly further allow us to make further distinctions and more finely tune this ability. I feel comfortable saying that every red-hot, glowing stove burner is going to burn me. But, I don't think that every blonde-haired, blue-eyed, pale-skinned person wants to see me dead simply because of my ethnic makeup, unless they specifically indicate otherwise, even though there are actually some who do.

    And I don't think anyone is saying anyone does or should think that way.

    But I'm sure most people do not have an issue with a woman who has been raped by a man being a little more cautious around men in the future out of self-preservation, and would not call her a "sexist" because of it or say she was stooping to the level of a rapist.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • KilajoKilajo Posts: 786Registered Users
    Amneris wrote: »
    My paper cut is just as bad as your terminal cancer, and if you can't put complaining about your cancer aside to focus on MY PAPER CUT, you are a horrible, unfair person!

    Haha I have to use this quote! Thank you! Lol


    On my EVO
  • HoneycurlsHoneycurls Posts: 1,889Registered Users
    Amneris wrote: »
    Honeycurls wrote: »

    No I wasn't kidding. For example, my 88 y/o gmom who grew up in south Carolina and had to drink out of water fountains and use both room marked colored, if she is had a hatred for white people, I won't be mad at her for that.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

    Believe me, I understand what you're saying. However, she is lowering herself to that same level--she's making a prejudgement against all white people--retaliatory in nature, yes, but it's still prejudice nonetheless.

    I disagree completely that a person who has been treated as less than human and completely degraded because of who they are and has been taught for years that they are less than another group of people because of who they are who as a result is scarred and may express that with anger or distasteful comments is in any way "lowering" themself to the level of people who committed hate crimes against an entire race of people for their own benefit.

    eta: sorry for the run-on sentence.

    I have been treated pretty badly by both blacks and whites, so, should I live out my life retaliating against both? I just can't. I'd have missed out on some pretty amazing people. No, it's not on the same level as what jordannicole is referencing with her g-ma, but it has had a profound effect on me that I have to actively fight every day.
    OK, I admit it.....I'm an alias! I wasn't born with the name Honeycurls!
    :lurk: Dood, get over it; there's no time limit on lurking.

    I so busy runnin' allllllll over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me! :confused5::laughing5::jocolor:
  • HoneycurlsHoneycurls Posts: 1,889Registered Users
    Amneris wrote: »
    Honeycurls wrote: »
    See, I think that's very big of your g-ma. I don't know if I could say the same about myself if I'd grown up in those times. Very doubtful, in fact. Taking the higher road and turning the other cheek all the time are emotionally exhausting. But, you can either live a life steeped in hatred or you can try to rise above it. I'm glad your g-ma was able to rise above.

    My theory on "prejudice" is that the ability to recognize and associate physical characteristics with similar or repeated behavior patterns or any other similarities between or among people, places or things in the wild is an innate and crucial survival mechanism. It's how we "learn" and survive. But, our big, advanced human brains allegedly further allow us to make further distinctions and more finely tune this ability. I feel comfortable saying that every red-hot, glowing stove burner is going to burn me. But, I don't think that every blonde-haired, blue-eyed, pale-skinned person wants to see me dead simply because of my ethnic makeup, unless they specifically indicate otherwise, even though there are actually some who do.

    And I don't think anyone is saying anyone does or should think that way.

    But I'm sure most people do not have an issue with a woman who has been raped by a man being a little more cautious around men in the future out of self-preservation, and would not call her a "sexist" because of it or say she was stooping to the level of a rapist.

    Well, those were just oversimplifications to hopefully more easily illustrate my point. But, regarding rape, that's not really a good analogy to me. The motivations on both sides have different origins.
    OK, I admit it.....I'm an alias! I wasn't born with the name Honeycurls!
    :lurk: Dood, get over it; there's no time limit on lurking.

    I so busy runnin' allllllll over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me! :confused5::laughing5::jocolor:
  • HoneycurlsHoneycurls Posts: 1,889Registered Users
    Amneris, are you chasin' me? Because, apparently "I runnin' all over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me" and I guess I need someone to chase me!

    I understand what you're saying, though. It's a complex topic. If we ourselves can't agree, how can we expect those who don't share our history and experiences to understand? I went and opened my own floodgates anyway! Lol.

    And, as much fun as this is, I have something even more fun--a mammogram. So, I'll leave you all to this stimulating conversation. Hope the OP ducks back in sometime soon!
    OK, I admit it.....I'm an alias! I wasn't born with the name Honeycurls!
    :lurk: Dood, get over it; there's no time limit on lurking.

    I so busy runnin' allllllll over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me! :confused5::laughing5::jocolor:
  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 8,660Registered Users
    eche428 wrote: »
    Come on you guys! Why do you do this to yourselves? Leave the troll alone. :confused5:

    I know. She/He /It gave themselves away with the 1st paragraph. A lot of lonely, bored people out there this holiday season. We could be here for you instead of you trying to instigate drama.

    First off I just want to say that if anyone quickly goes off the bend about what I've said by thinking it's BS or whatnot WITHOUT reading my post and especially because they have not watched the videos then you are showing CurlTalk your true colors on this topic.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • HoneycurlsHoneycurls Posts: 1,889Registered Users
    At the risk of making myself late, I just had to come back on and ask you all to disregard my post about the rape analogy. I was thinking about it while in the shower, and I realized my error. I have more to say but no time now. Sorry for the backpedaling.
    OK, I admit it.....I'm an alias! I wasn't born with the name Honeycurls!
    :lurk: Dood, get over it; there's no time limit on lurking.

    I so busy runnin' allllllll over the place and ain't nobody chasin' me! :confused5::laughing5::jocolor:
  • CalypsoCalypso Posts: 142Registered Users
    Amneris wrote: »
    I think you lost me at "questioning" white privilege and white supremacy.

    Your post suggests you don't think those are real. If you don't understand how those work, you won't get the issues and you won't get any respect for your views from me and probably from others who get the issues.

    The flaw in your logic is that you're assuming that Blacks or other people of colour "acting out" towards white people, is, and should be, seen as equal with white racism towards Black people. Not everyone shares that view. If you look at racism as having a power or institutionalized component, they are in no way the same. To me, this is the only legitimate way to view racism. You're also assuming that if a racialized person acts out towards a white person, it is out of dislike or a feeling of inferiority of white people. I believe that that is rarely, if ever, the case.


    As to Black people talking about Blacks being racist against whites, that's a form of internalized racism - trying to gain acceptance and respect from white people by identifying with them and saying what they want to hear, or trying to escape the pain of their own situation by minimizing it and turning the focus elsewhere.

    I find it funny that you talk about open-mindedness like you want people of colour to be open-minded to the "racism" white people face, but you have completely closed your mind to legitimate historic and social evidence.

    I am not sure what the quote about slavery being about economics is supposed to prove. That doesn't change that a certain group of people was targetted in the name of economics. And the numbers show that Black slavery was far greater in scope and damage than any white slavery or any form of slavery in history. Lots of people have opinions like the ones you quoted - doesn't make them educated or informed or logical.

    :laughing8:I expected answers like these! The truth often does anger people when they first hear about it. Hell, even I thought it was BS until I looked into it more.

    Never once did I say that white supremacy or white privilege wasn't real and I'm not denying that it does not exist in some form. What I am saying is that there is more to history than meets the eye and this is part of it. There are many legitimate sources on this, you just have to look for it which is what I did.

    Also, what I was trying to get at was that people need to see that all people have been(or is still being subjected unfortunately) to racism in some way, shape or form. It is never acceptable for one or the other to do so nor is it worse for one group or another. Is it safe to assume that you feel that way? I can understand why someone who actually knows that their family were slaves in the past would be racist to some extent but for everyone to feel that way is going to the extreme. You have to realize and accept that not all black people were slaves just like not all white people were slaves, slave traders or slave masters for that matter so for an entire race to hate another(each and every person, many who had nothing to do with the above) is again, going to the extremes. There were a lot of people involved in slavery(blacks, whites, asians, etc.). Saying that it was unacceptable and horrendous for one race yet not so for another is wrong as well.

    Have any of you even watched the videos? The people in the videos actually got their information from creditable sources or from personal experience so they are not just made up like many want to believe.

    The main reason I actually began looking into this is because of something my sister told me about. One of her friend's boyfriend(who is half white, half Jamaican) was taught all of what I posted and more from his father(who is black). I too thought it was bull at first and did not believe it like many people here until I did more research on it. I read up on stories from actual families from Scotland and Ireland who have had family members who were involved in slavery so it is very real even if you want to keep the blind over your eyes. Ignoring it in the hopes that it will go away, trashing those facts or denying any of it or calling me a troll will not change a thing no matter how hard you try. Sorry but it's true.
    Also, I would suggest getting info from books and journals and government sources etc.
    Three of the videos had information from books. The titles and authors were listed. You would know that if you watched(and listened) to it. Also, how can you say "government sources" without laughing? Read the fifth quote I posted and you will see that information on this has been so screwed up because of the people like the government. Why do you think Native Americans loath the government? It's because of the constant lies they spit out and the real history of slavery is one of many. It would explain why many don't want to believe it. I have family members who are Mi'k maq who don't even harbor any feelings of hate towards whites which you would expect them to do so! They hate the government but not an entire race. Hating everyone in the present won't change what happened in the past. All we can do is educate people on the past in the hopes that it will change the future for the better. That's why information on what I originally posted is coming to the surface more. You can deny it all you want it's still not going to change a thing but if you want to ignore it then by all means do so. Whatever gets you through the day.
    3a/3b spirals and the occasional ringlet
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