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I Might Take A Beating For This...

WileE-DeadWileE-Dead BannedPosts: 24,963Banned Users
Tho I need y'all to be frank w/ me.
I am feeling conflicted.
I love my bro, tho at times I want to punch him in the face to somehow get some sense into him.

Here is the latest...
Those who are tired of this drama, please be gentle.
I have been told I'm enabling him, tho he is my bro and I love him.
After this latest situation, I am giving him until April to get it together.
The thing is he does not have a CC and my dad says he won't finance him anymore.
I give NO unsecured loans; however I don't mind helping him.
He knows I don't play around and will bust his balls.
I have lots of his furniture for collateral, tho don't want to have to go there; however, he decides that.

So, my question is, w/o being too revealing, is how far do you go to help a sibling?
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Ever since the sports thread wars I have sensed a special connection between [edit] & Wile. Like the connection oil has to water. I almost can't speak of it. Wait....my eyes are misting. ~asq
Let’s just stay together and tell the world to kiss our ass. ~P


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Comments

  • IAmJordanNicoleIAmJordanNicole Posts: 784Registered Users
    I was always told not to lend money to people that you love because if you don't get it back it causes conflict. I was advised only lend as much as you can afford to GIVE AWAY that way if you don't get it back you aren't hurting.

    However if you continue to give to someone who refuses to get themselves together that is enabling. Sometimes people need consequences in order to change.


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  • cailincailin Posts: 898Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    It depends. I have a sister who is constantly behind the 8 ball. But it's all her own doing. It just gets to the point where I can't help anymore because she won't help herself. And if I do, then she turns around and gets herself back in the same position, then I'd be resentful of her and that's no good.

    So one time, I guess, sure. But after that, you're on your own. I'm her sister, not her bank.

    *Caveat* my sister does not have children. My answer might be different if she did.
  • SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
    My personal motto about loaning family members money:

    If you loan a family member money never, ever expect to get it back... plan accordingly.
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  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    cailin, if your sis did have kiddos, how would you feel differently? ty
    0004.gif

    Ever since the sports thread wars I have sensed a special connection between [edit] & Wile. Like the connection oil has to water. I almost can't speak of it. Wait....my eyes are misting. ~asq
    Let’s just stay together and tell the world to kiss our ass. ~P


  • CGNYCCGNYC Posts: 4,937Registered Users
    I'm going to be honest because you asked - it sounds very much like you enjoy being the hero and the responsible one and being in a position to control the situation. You don't give unsecured loans? You will take his furniture as collateral? Really?

    I'm not saying I have sympathy for him, he's an adult who - so far - has not chosen to get it together. You're not helping - I think loans are just your way of a. feeling like the good child, b. being in control, and c. keeping your hand in the mix, buying yourself the right to have your say. And I say ALL this as the responsible, dependable older sister. It is very easy to get a lot of ego boosting from your position as the martyr. To a far lesser degree, it is hard to say no when they ask. Mostly, it's about being the person who can say yes - or not.

    I have gone quite far to help a sibling, but until they decided to help themselves by growing up, getting jobs, and learning to live within a budget it was just throwing good money down a hole. I've bought cars and computers, paid deposits, cosigned, made loans, and been daycare. And as soon as they felt the "relief" they went right back to doing what they were doing so I was out the cash and they were still right back where they started.

    I have also noticed that you are super hyper critical of your brother, whoever he is involved with, and his kids. I really wish you could hear yourself. I don't think you're usually WRONG, but you just shouldn't be so involved. I know, I have brothers, they have wives, and they all have kids. I have a LOT of opinions but it is not. my. business. Every time one of these posts comes up I think, just stay out of it and let him solve his own problems (or not). NO ONE is helping him by being so involved in his business. He will learn to handle it or he will deal with the consequences himself.

    You need to be less involved in this situation. It is none of your business. Stay out of it. Back away and let him work it out, handle his finances, raise his kids, deal with whoever he's dating, etc. Do not get so wrapped up in someone else's business. It's not good for you and it's not good for them.

    Trust me, girl, I have THREE brothers.
  • CGNYCCGNYC Posts: 4,937Registered Users
    My only "but" is that you're asking about kids and it's close to Christmas. If this is a Christmas loan, I would give a reasonable amount for gifts, kiss it goodbye, and let that be the end of loans. Tell him now you don't think you should be so involved and you won't be doing it next year so he needs to plan ahead. I'm not made of stone, I can not deny kids gifts at Christmas. Even if their father is a jerk.

    See? Not totally dead inside!

    However, if he's just gotten himself into another tight spot, step away and let him handle it.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    CGNYC wrote: »
    You need to be less involved in this situation. It is none of your business. Stay out of it. Back away and let him work it out, handle his finances, raise his kids, deal with whoever he's dating, etc. Do not get so wrapped up in someone else's business. It's not good for you and it's not good for them.


    Yup yup yup!

    You are too involved, WileE.

    And, I know how this story goes...you usually answer with "well, it's my folks I'm concerned about". So what. Let your folks do what they want/need to do. They are adults. If they want to throw their good money after bad, so be it. It's not your money...though I think you might be concerned just a tiny bit about your future inheritance and them mis-spending it on your brother.
  • MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    Without knowing a lot of the background, and without reading what others have posted: only as much as that sibling is willing to help him or her self. If you feel like he's working for it, and just having bad luck, and helping is not hindering him or enabling him to behave badly, then yeah, I'd help.

    But if I felt like a sibling-- or anyone, for that matter-- is wading around is assistance and not working on it themselves, my personal investment would come to an end.
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  • LadyV69LadyV69 Posts: 3,397Registered Users
    I helped my sister numerous times in the past-car loans, money for the light bill, money to buy her kids school clothes, etc. It got to the point where the only time I'd hear from her was when she wanted something and I was beginning to see that she really wasn't working to improve her financial situation so I cut her off. Most of the money I'd given her wasn't anything I couldn't afford to lose, but it's the principal of the thing.
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  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    CGNYC wrote: »
    I'm going to be honest because you asked - it sounds very much like you enjoy being the hero and the responsible one and being in a position to control the situation. You don't give unsecured loans? You will take his furniture as collateral? Really?

    I'm not saying I have sympathy for him, he's an adult who - so far - has not chosen to get it together. You're not helping - I think loans are just your way of a. feeling like the good child, b. being in control, and c. keeping your hand in the mix, buying yourself the right to have your say. And I say ALL this as the responsible, dependable older sister. It is very easy to get a lot of ego boosting from your position as the martyr. To a far lesser degree, it is hard to say no when they ask. Mostly, it's about being the person who can say yes - or not.

    I have gone quite far to help a sibling, but until they decided to help themselves by growing up, getting jobs, and learning to live within a budget it was just throwing good money down a hole. I've bought cars and computers, paid deposits, cosigned, made loans, and been daycare. And as soon as they felt the "relief" they went right back to doing what they were doing so I was out the cash and they were still right back where they started.

    I have also noticed that you are super hyper critical of your brother, whoever he is involved with, and his kids. I really wish you could hear yourself. I don't think you're usually WRONG, but you just shouldn't be so involved. I know, I have brothers, they have wives, and they all have kids. I have a LOT of opinions but it is not. my. business. Every time one of these posts comes up I think, just stay out of it and let him solve his own problems (or not). NO ONE is helping him by being so involved in his business. He will learn to handle it or he will deal with the consequences himself.

    You need to be less involved in this situation. It is none of your business. Stay out of it. Back away and let him work it out, handle his finances, raise his kids, deal with whoever he's dating, etc. Do not get so wrapped up in someone else's business. It's not good for you and it's not good for them.

    Trust me, girl, I have THREE brothers.

    +1 to this.

    I'm assuming he still owes money from the truck you bought for his GF? He's just too deep because he knows you'll bail him out.

    If it Christmas, I'd buy the gifts instead of giving him money. Lord knows what he'd actually do with the money.



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  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    ftr....i wouldn't say gp is a jerk.
    his ex is quite the piece of work tho.
    and, yes, i fault him for his idiocy behavior.
    and, i also admit that my folks pull at my heart strings b/c, well of who they are.
    btw...what is wrong w/ me taking collateral? i'm not dumb and have learned from others....what's wrong w/ that?
    he knows i don't f around and i'm okay w/ my stipulations.
    what is so wrong w/ that? i'm just protecting myself
    maybe too much courttv/trutv
    
    :dontknow:
    0004.gif

    Ever since the sports thread wars I have sensed a special connection between [edit] & Wile. Like the connection oil has to water. I almost can't speak of it. Wait....my eyes are misting. ~asq
    Let’s just stay together and tell the world to kiss our ass. ~P


  • PoodleheadPoodlehead Posts: 6,959Registered Users
    Even your dad has stopped helping, if I'm reading your first post right.

    You need to stop, take a breath, and say "Enough."
    Minneapolis, MN
  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    rcc..no, he owes me no money for the pilot....
    0004.gif

    Ever since the sports thread wars I have sensed a special connection between [edit] & Wile. Like the connection oil has to water. I almost can't speak of it. Wait....my eyes are misting. ~asq
    Let’s just stay together and tell the world to kiss our ass. ~P


  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    Assigning worse traits to the ex or justifying loans without collateral doesn't make his issues any better, it just makes you feel better. ;).

    We've given you the same advice. You're just not quite ready to take it.


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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    rcc..no, he owes me no money for the pilot....



    Ut oh. Did he crash and total it?
  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    I honestly don't belive that's true rcc.
    Not happened yet, rcw.
    He has a Honda Accord that he drives.
    She drives the Pilot. :dontknow:
    0004.gif

    Ever since the sports thread wars I have sensed a special connection between [edit] & Wile. Like the connection oil has to water. I almost can't speak of it. Wait....my eyes are misting. ~asq
    Let’s just stay together and tell the world to kiss our ass. ~P


  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    I honestly don't belive that's true rcc.
    Not happened yet, rcw.
    He has a Honda Accord that he drives.
    She drives the Pilot. :dontknow:



    You're so cagey. You say "he owes you no money for the pilot" and that "she drives the pilot". But you didn't actually say "he paid it off". Ergo...I can only surmise that she must owe you money for the pilot. Are they still together?
  • mrspoppersmrspoppers Posts: 7,223Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I agree with CGNYC 100% on almost all counts.

    My family has a similar situation. Just substitute my sister for your brother and my mom for you. What CG said about the dynamic is exactly what has happened in my family.

    I'm not going to get into the details about my sister's divorce because it will just derail your thread. I've posted about it here though, if you look.

    Now that the divorce is final, my sister and nephew are settled in an apartment, and everything is stable, nobody in my family--including my mom--will give my sister money again, unless they are literally faced with homelessness. There is nothing short of homelessness that will sway us.

    My opinion on the kids is this: Kids should be clothed, fed, sheltered, and feel safe. Outside of that, it is not necessary to give your bro money. If you really are talking about Christmas gifts, please don't do it. If you want the kids to have presents, make them from you. Do not give your bro money to buy gifts. If you absolutely can't help yourself, limit it to a very small amount of money, like $25/kid.

    I know I sound like a hard ass. The thing is, gifts aren't a necessity. It's crazy that people go into debt for Christmas gifts. I can't tell you how many people call my husband in December and say they can't make their car or credit card payment because they need the money to buy Christmas gifts. Um, no you don't. People need to live within their means. And kids just don't need a bunch of expensive crap.

    If you're talking about the child support or the kids not having food, that's a different thing altogether.
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  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    I honestly don't belive that's true rcc.
    Not happened yet, rcw.
    He has a Honda Accord that he drives.
    She drives the Pilot. :dontknow:



    You're so cagey. You say "he owes you no money for the pilot" and that "she drives the pilot". But you didn't actually say "he paid it off". Ergo...I can only surmise that she must owe you money for the pilot. Are they still together?
    gtfoh cagey?!
    i never said HE owed me $ for the pilot.
    the title is ONLY in HER name.
    the pilot is strictly her responsibility, as i have stated before.
    i have possession of the clear title.
    chicks
    
    they are still together and unfortunately will probably get married.........god help us all........
    and hubby always tells me why do i bring this stuff to the board and i say b/c i want to know what y'all think...lol
    0004.gif

    Ever since the sports thread wars I have sensed a special connection between [edit] & Wile. Like the connection oil has to water. I almost can't speak of it. Wait....my eyes are misting. ~asq
    Let’s just stay together and tell the world to kiss our ass. ~P


  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    I honestly don't belive that's true rcc.
    Not happened yet, rcw.
    He has a Honda Accord that he drives.
    She drives the Pilot. :dontknow:



    You're so cagey. You say "he owes you no money for the pilot" and that "she drives the pilot". But you didn't actually say "he paid it off". Ergo...I can only surmise that she must owe you money for the pilot. Are they still together?
    gtfoh cagey?!
    the pilot is strictly her responsibility, as I have stated numerous time before!
    chicks
    
    they are still together and unfortunately will probably get married.........god help us all........



    OK, so I was right. He/They have not paid off the car loan. Saying "he owes you no money" is indeed cagey.
  • roseannadanaroseannadana Posts: 5,632Registered Users
    So, my question is, w/o being too revealing, is how far do you go to help a sibling?

    i would give my sibling a kidney.

    But if he continually made bad decisions regarding money and was not working hard to try to improve the situation, he wouldn't get any money from me.

    I was born to be a pessimist. My blood type is B Negative.
  • CGNYCCGNYC Posts: 4,937Registered Users
    First of all, Wile, "cagey" is kind of your whole schtick here.

    Second, you really REALLY just need to back away and stay out of their relationship and finances.

    It is impossible not to have an opinion and trust me, I know this. Like I said, I have brothers, SILS, and nieces/nephews of my own and God knows I don't always agree with how they do things. Do like the rest of us and gossip with your mother and girlfriends but stay out of their relationships and that includes finances. It's not your place.
  • NalliaNallia Posts: 2,979Registered Users
    I have a sister who used to take advantage of my generosity. Of everyone's, really. I could go on and on and on for days, but it suffices to say that she used a lot of the money she was given for drugs and alcohol and barely worked a day in her life. She lied, stole, manipulated, and talked a lot of people into paying her way in life. She stole my car right in front of me when I was 21 and got my license suspended by pretending she was me and getting moving violations in my name (10 of them). She has two children and used to use them against everyone or make us feel guilty for not helping with them. But nothing was ever enough. She was all sweet and light when she got her way, but the minute the answer had to be no for any reason--like my needing to pay my own rent and not having any extra money--she became angry and acted as if I was a horrible person. She did similar things to my parents, threatening to not let them see the kids if they didn't give her money.

    After years of being abused and taken advantage of, I just had to stop enabling her for my own sanity. So I stopped giving her money and stopped answering the phone when she called. Unfortunately, it required almost completely cutting her off. But I was always worried about my niece and nephew and always did what I could for them. They are now with my mother and have been adopted by her. My sister is still doing whatever she's doing.

    The only thing I can tell you is that it's entirely up to you how much you can do and how much you can take. If you truly don't mind helping to support him, his girlfriend, and his family, then keep doing it and stop second guessing your decisions. If it truly bothers you to do it then dont do it anymore. But it won't end unless/until you end it. Most cases aren't as extreme as my sister's and many people will finally get their lives together when they no longer have a choice. But some won't. You just can't blame yourself and let yourself feel responsible for his choices, even when they hurt his children. I know it's hard. That was always the hardest part for me and the reason I let her manipulate me for so long.
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  • PartyHairPartyHair Posts: 7,713Registered Users
    I am totally on Team CGNYC on this one - both her posts are spot on.

    As for your parents, they are grown people in full control of their faculties. They enable your brother? That's on them. I'm in the same situation with my brother and my mom, but you know what? My mom is the one who lets him live there rent-free, etc., etc. It's on her.

    Do I like it? Hell, no. I want to shake my brother for treating Mom that way, but SHE ALLOWS IT. She is a party to it just as much as he is.

    You just need to back away from your brother and his family and his relationship to your parents and their issues.
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  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    rcw...you are always right
    your poor hubby
    
    she owes me...he does not...wtheck
    0004.gif

    Ever since the sports thread wars I have sensed a special connection between [edit] & Wile. Like the connection oil has to water. I almost can't speak of it. Wait....my eyes are misting. ~asq
    Let’s just stay together and tell the world to kiss our ass. ~P


  • CGNYCCGNYC Posts: 4,937Registered Users
    I think it's also worth considering the fact that pretty much everyone here has said you're too involved and you need to back out of their relationship and finances.
  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    CGNYC wrote: »
    First of all, Wile, "cagey" is kind of your whole schtick here.

    Second, you really REALLY just need to back away and stay out of their relationship and finances.

    It is impossible not to have an opinion and trust me, I know this. Like I said, I have brothers, SILS, and nieces/nephews of my own and God knows I don't always agree with how they do things. Do like the rest of us and gossip with your mother and girlfriends but stay out of their relationships and that includes finances. It's not your place.
    However....however...do you have a GP?
    that is the ?
    
    0004.gif

    Ever since the sports thread wars I have sensed a special connection between [edit] & Wile. Like the connection oil has to water. I almost can't speak of it. Wait....my eyes are misting. ~asq
    Let’s just stay together and tell the world to kiss our ass. ~P


  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    I don't have a gp but I agree with CGNYC 100%.
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  • CGNYCCGNYC Posts: 4,937Registered Users
    I think what you consider the whole "GP" phenomenon is really just what happens when you have two children and one of them doesn't grow up. I know you need to break it down in a way that lets you say "penis" as often as possible :bounce: (and bonus! Abbreviations! :wink:), but I think it's more a birth order thing.

    People often see things more clearly when they're looking in from the outside. It's easy to get swamped when you're in the situation. This is how most people see your situation: you're too involved, you need to back off and butt out. And this is from hearing YOUR side of the story! You're involved, at least in part, as a way to boost your ego and have some control. Your parents are adults and have the right to do whatever they want. You're at least somewhat jealous of your brother and enjoy being the good child. Many of us have been there and no good came from it. That about sums it up.

    Walk away, let it go, let him deal with his own crap. It will be hard at first but you will be happier for it.
  • CurliLocksCurliLocks Posts: 10,572Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    I "liked" most of the posts because I agree with them. I have been in a similar situation and I agree that you have to let it go, let HIM go, and stay out of it. It's not healthy for you. He has to grow up some day, you can't stop your parents from enabling him, but YOU CAN STOP YOURSELF! :) Please try. It's for the best.

    And I agree that the kids will get gifts from others so if he can't afford them, that's on him and they will learn. Maybe if his kids see that dad can't buy them gifts (because he can't manage money and lives beyond his means, etc), it will hurt him enough to open his eyes. Sad as it sounds. :(
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