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Curl Pattern 3d - Am I the only one who thinks there is a missing link?

shainalashainala Posts: 125Registered Users
So I'm not really obsessed with curl pattern, I do understand that a lot of other hair characteristics play into whether our hair shares commonalities with the hair of other peeps, however, I do think that defining one's curl pattern can be somewhat useful (especially if you are trying to figure out how elongated or defined a certain product or styling method will make your curls)
I've found over the last almost year that my curl pattern seems to sit somewhere in between the curls on my 3c and 4a sisters (and brothers). Rather than trying to squeeze myself into one of these categories, I started to describe my hair pattern without any product or manipulation as 3D....
Do ya'll feel me? Is there a missing link in your opinion? Or am I just confused?
Oh here are pics of my curls.
«1

Comments

  • BrinstarrBrinstarr Posts: 90Registered Users
    Your hair looks very similar to mine, just my ever present confusion. But I just throw myself in the 3c or 3c/4a crowd....depending on the weather. Heh.

    I wish there was a 3d category!
  • BekkaPooBekkaPoo Posts: 3,861Registered Users
    I think you can call yourself 3d, 3c/4a, or whatever you want. The entire "curl sizing" system is made up (as in not a hard fact science) anyways, so if someone wants to add or subtract categories, go for it.
    "The challenge is to be yourself in a world that is trying to make you like everybody else."
    "...rationality is not necessary to sell things.."
    My staples: Mane n Tail (cowash), Garnier Fructis Sleek n Shine (leave in condish), Grapeseed oil or shea butter (sealing), Organic Root Stimulator Elasticitea (leave-in condish & light hold)
  • _Michael11_Michael11 Posts: 90Registered Users
    Lol i agree!! I would fall perfectly in the 3D category

    Sent from my SGH-T959V using CurlTalk App
    goal hair length- waist length
    I LOVE HAIR!!!
    **My Big Hair Don't Journey--"Please check me out" :nike:
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2Fkingsmith1991%3Ffeature%3Dmhee%23p%2Fa%2Fu%2F1%2FCQ-J0dmftw8" class="Popup

    comic-p.jpg
  • wavytransitionwavytransition Posts: 4Registered Users
    I agree I must be 4D also lol
  • vanillatoffeevanillatoffee Posts: 105Registered Users
    congratulations…you just created the 3D category :) i mean, why not? the 'typing system' needs to be expanded!
    :icescream: last relaxer: june 2010. bc: october 2010. :happy10:
    properties: mix of 3 & 4, high density!!, medium-coarse, protein sensitive, low-normal porosity, cottony, daughter S
    hair likes: garnier pure clean conditioner, v05, water & olive oil...that's literally it. so far...
    four fat braids every night; moisturize or spray w/ water, seal w/ EVOO every other night.



  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    There are plenty of ways to label "in between" hair if you buy into Andre's system, but I guess it seems more logical IMO to say - for example - that I have 3b/c hair rather than making up some whole new category for it. Of course most people will already understand you when you say you have 3a/4c hair, just like they'll understand me saying I have 3b/c hair. I guess I don't see how "3d" is even needed, except that it saves three typing characters.

    And since nobody is going there I'll just say it: one cynical view is that some curlies will do anything to avoid calling themselves a "4" because of the whole "good hair"/"bad hair" syndrome, including calling themselves "3d"s. I think SOMETIMES this really is the motivation, though I'm not accusing you, the OP, of this.

    Regardless of peoples' motivations in creating extra categories I do ultimately agree w/those who say people get to call their hair anything they want.
  • greenandchicgreenandchic Posts: 2,584Registered Users
    Korkscrew wrote: »
    There are plenty of ways to label "in between" hair if you buy into Andre's system, but I guess it seems more logical IMO to say - for example - that I have 3b/c hair rather than making up some whole new category for it. Of course most people will already understand you when you say you have 3a/4c hair, just like they'll understand me saying I have 3b/c hair. I guess I don't see how "3d" is even needed, except that it saves three typing characters.

    And since nobody is going there I'll just say it: one cynical view is that some curlies will do anything to avoid calling themselves a "4" because of the whole "good hair"/"bad hair" syndrome, including calling themselves "3d"s. I think SOMETIMES this really is the motivation, though I'm not accusing you, the OP, of this.

    Regardless of peoples' motivations in creating extra categories I do ultimately agree w/those who say people get to call their hair anything they want.

    Yes, it was talked about in the 4a forum - same thread http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/4a/134053-3d-curl-pattern-missing-link.html I don't see what's so hard about saying 4a/3c, 4a/4b, etc. Its something that many of us are more familiar with than making up a new category.

    Many if not most of us curlies do have more than one curl pattern. I'm 4a/3c with some waves, tighter curls, looser curls - all on one head. That's partly why I stopped putting my curl pattern in my signature. Its different for everyone who sees my hair.
    APL BSL MBL WL HL TBL | porous, fine/medium strands, medium density
    My Fotki!
    Below: Typical PS bun
    004-vi.jpg
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Many if not most of us curlies do have more than one curl pattern. I'm 4a/3c with some waves, tighter curls, looser curls - all on one head. That's partly why I stopped putting my curl pattern in my signature. Its different for everyone who sees my hair.

    Exactly! In fact, many of us likely have more than two patterns on our heads. So let's say someone is thought to have "2c/3a/3b" hair. Do we make up a fresh abbreviation for these type of combinations too? How much do we want to complicate things? And I just find it a little curious that it's usually someone with hair that partially falls into the "4" category that wants some new category that excludes the 4. I've heard this proposition raised offline too and it's never from the 2s or 3s. Again, I don't think that means race-based hair shame is always the motivator, but it begins to look like it is in too many cases, which is sad.
  • KilajoKilajo Posts: 786Registered Users
    Can someone please stop this thread before it explodes like THE EXACT SAME thread did in 4a?! Who cares if people who YOU think are 4s believe they're 3s. They know their curl size better than you do. Seriously, why is that so important? BTW I am the last one to advocate curl typing. I don't like it.... 3d is as silly as 2b, 3b or 10b to me!

    On my EVO
  • greenandchicgreenandchic Posts: 2,584Registered Users
    Sounds like you're only one getting heated up over it.
    APL BSL MBL WL HL TBL | porous, fine/medium strands, medium density
    My Fotki!
    Below: Typical PS bun
    004-vi.jpg
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Kilajo wrote: »
    Can someone please stop this thread before it explodes like THE EXACT SAME thread did in 4a?! Who cares if people who YOU think are 4s believe they're 3s. They know their curl size better than you do. Seriously, why is that so important? BTW I am the last one to advocate curl typing. I don't like it.... 3d is as silly as 2b, 3b or 10b to me!

    On my EVO

    Noticed someone attacked you in that other thread, accusing you of being a "4" in disguise ... the way they did it was completely obnoxious and uncalled for. And I'm sorry if my opinion has you worried that this thread will attract more commentary that is personally attacking or doesn't align with your own view.

    But for the record, I've acknowledged that people get to label themselves however they'd like. I've merely added that I find some of what motivates it kind of interesting and at times, sad. Not sure your appeal to censor the thread is the best way to handle your anxiety. Then again, the moderator will obviously step in if it's believed things on this thread will get out of hand.
  • BekkaPooBekkaPoo Posts: 3,861Registered Users
    I don't think it will get crazy like it did in 4a.. already this thread is kinda like "meh". I mean look how long it took to get this many replies...
    "The challenge is to be yourself in a world that is trying to make you like everybody else."
    "...rationality is not necessary to sell things.."
    My staples: Mane n Tail (cowash), Garnier Fructis Sleek n Shine (leave in condish), Grapeseed oil or shea butter (sealing), Organic Root Stimulator Elasticitea (leave-in condish & light hold)
  • KilajoKilajo Posts: 786Registered Users
    Sounds like you're only one getting heated up over it.

    I'm not heated. But this has been asked and answered in the other thread. I do think this is silly. Also it bothers me to hear people say 4s have some kinda hidden or not so hidden issue with accepting that they are 4s. I think that's as offensive as people constantly telling me I have mixed hair or worse "good hair". WTH?? I don't get the preoccupation with curl size OR people telling others (in an intended negative way) what their type is. But I'm certainly not the type to get mad or "heated" over a hair forum.

    On my EVO
  • greenandchicgreenandchic Posts: 2,584Registered Users
    Kilajo wrote: »
    Sounds like you're only one getting heated up over it.

    I'm not heated. But this has been asked and answered in the other thread. I do think this is silly. Also it bothers me to hear people say 4s have some kinda hidden or not so hidden issue with accepting that they are 4s. I think that's as offensive as people constantly telling me I have mixed hair or worse "good hair". WTH?? I don't get the preoccupation with curl size OR people telling others (in an intended negative way) what their type is. But I'm certainly not the type to get mad or "heated" over a hair forum.

    On my EVO

    We were simply answering the question.

    People ask what their hair type is all the time. We answer. Of course, its not going to be accurate because photos from a couple of angles can only tell you so much.
    APL BSL MBL WL HL TBL | porous, fine/medium strands, medium density
    My Fotki!
    Below: Typical PS bun
    004-vi.jpg
  • KilajoKilajo Posts: 786Registered Users
    Korkscrew wrote: »
    Kilajo wrote: »
    Can someone please stop this thread before it explodes like THE EXACT SAME thread did in 4a?! Who cares if people who YOU think are 4s believe they're 3s. They know their curl size better than you do. Seriously, why is that so important? BTW I am the last one to advocate curl typing. I don't like it.... 3d is as silly as 2b, 3b or 10b to me!

    On my EVO

    Noticed someone attacked you in that other thread, accusing you of being a "4" in disguise ... the way they did it was completely obnoxious and uncalled for. And I'm sorry if my opinion has you worried that this thread will attract more commentary that is personally attacking or doesn't align with your own view.

    But for the record, I've acknowledged that people get to label themselves however they'd like. I've merely added that I find some of what motivates it kind of interesting and at times, sad. Not sure your appeal to censor the thread is the best way to handle your anxiety. Then again, the moderator will obviously step in if it's believed things on this thread will get out of hand.

    First, if you are affected by anxiety, please don't project your mental state onto me. That's your issue. Second, it doesn't really matter if this aligns with my views. I'm going to continue to give my opinions when I choose to over and over if I choose. Just as you will continue to say over and over you think some 4s have this issue. That's both of our right.

    On my EVO
  • KilajoKilajo Posts: 786Registered Users
    Kilajo wrote: »
    Sounds like you're only one getting heated up over it.

    I'm not heated. But this has been asked and answered in the other thread. I do think this is silly. Also it bothers me to hear people say 4s have some kinda hidden or not so hidden issue with accepting that they are 4s. I think that's as offensive as people constantly telling me I have mixed hair or worse "good hair". WTH?? I don't get the preoccupation with curl size OR people telling others (in an intended negative way) what their type is. But I'm certainly not the type to get mad or "heated" over a hair forum.

    On my EVO

    We were simply answering the question.

    People ask what their hair type is all the time. We answer. Of course, its not going to be accurate because photos from a couple of angles can only tell you so much.

    You're absolutely right! That's why I said "in an intended negative way". I just saw a very offensive post by someone just the other day named buckwheat jones. The thread went poof but it said essentially what korkscrew and curlylaru from the other thread are saying but in a completely offensive manner.

    On my EVO
  • KilajoKilajo Posts: 786Registered Users
    Kilajo wrote: »
    Sounds like you're only one getting heated up over it.

    I'm not heated. But this has been asked and answered in the other thread. I do think this is silly. Also it bothers me to hear people say 4s have some kinda hidden or not so hidden issue with accepting that they are 4s. I think that's as offensive as people constantly telling me I have mixed hair or worse "good hair". WTH?? I don't get the preoccupation with curl size OR people telling others (in an intended negative way) what their type is. But I'm certainly not the type to get mad or "heated" over a hair forum.

    On my EVO

    We were simply answering the question.

    People ask what their hair type is all the time. We answer. Of course, its not going to be accurate because photos from a couple of angles can only tell you so much.

    By the way the same person posted both threads so it was pretty much asked and answered.

    On my EVO
  • KilajoKilajo Posts: 786Registered Users
    BekkaPoo wrote: »
    I don't think it will get crazy like it did in 4a.. already this thread is kinda like "meh". I mean look how long it took to get this many replies...

    I didn't post initially because of the other thread. However when a poster starts talking about a group of people and what they feel about their hair I chime in. I don't think 4s have some hidden self hate or something like I keep reading. I think people know their curl size and try to honestly fit it in to this typing system. Sometimes it fits neatly. From what I understand of it my hair fits neatly into it. But other people's hair doesn't, hence 3d. I just don't think it's important for ME. But everyone else, please carry on! I said my peace

    On my EVO
  • greenandchicgreenandchic Posts: 2,584Registered Users
    Kilajo wrote: »
    Kilajo wrote: »

    I'm not heated. But this has been asked and answered in the other thread. I do think this is silly. Also it bothers me to hear people say 4s have some kinda hidden or not so hidden issue with accepting that they are 4s. I think that's as offensive as people constantly telling me I have mixed hair or worse "good hair". WTH?? I don't get the preoccupation with curl size OR people telling others (in an intended negative way) what their type is. But I'm certainly not the type to get mad or "heated" over a hair forum.

    On my EVO

    We were simply answering the question.

    People ask what their hair type is all the time. We answer. Of course, its not going to be accurate because photos from a couple of angles can only tell you so much.

    By the way the same person posted both threads so it was pretty much asked and answered.

    On my EVO

    I'm allowed to have my opinion. Thank you.
    APL BSL MBL WL HL TBL | porous, fine/medium strands, medium density
    My Fotki!
    Below: Typical PS bun
    004-vi.jpg
  • KilajoKilajo Posts: 786Registered Users
    Kilajo wrote: »

    We were simply answering the question.

    People ask what their hair type is all the time. We answer. Of course, its not going to be accurate because photos from a couple of angles can only tell you so much.

    By the way the same person posted both threads so it was pretty much asked and answered.

    On my EVO

    I'm allowed to have my opinion. Thank you.

    You're welcome??

    On my EVO
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Kilajo wrote: »
    Korkscrew wrote: »
    Kilajo wrote: »
    Can someone please stop this thread before it explodes like THE EXACT SAME thread did in 4a?! Who cares if people who YOU think are 4s believe they're 3s. They know their curl size better than you do. Seriously, why is that so important? BTW I am the last one to advocate curl typing. I don't like it.... 3d is as silly as 2b, 3b or 10b to me!

    On my EVO

    Noticed someone attacked you in that other thread, accusing you of being a "4" in disguise ... the way they did it was completely obnoxious and uncalled for. And I'm sorry if my opinion has you worried that this thread will attract more commentary that is personally attacking or doesn't align with your own view.

    But for the record, I've acknowledged that people get to label themselves however they'd like. I've merely added that I find some of what motivates it kind of interesting and at times, sad. Not sure your appeal to censor the thread is the best way to handle your anxiety. Then again, the moderator will obviously step in if it's believed things on this thread will get out of hand.

    First, if you are affected by anxiety, please don't project your mental state onto me. That's your issue. Second, it doesn't really matter if this aligns with my views. I'm going to continue to give my opinions when I choose to over and over if I choose. Just as you will continue to say over and over you think some 4s have this issue. That's both of our right.

    On my EVO

    If you think "anxiety" was too strong a word for your behavior, Okay. It's just that your plea for the thread to close seemed a little ... drastic; reactionary. At any rate, I see no reason why anyone would get offended by people stating the fact that SOME (not all) type 4s have a "good hair/ bad hair" complex that gets acted out via the typing system. To pretend it doesn't ever happen seems a little disingenuous to me.

    I do believe there's an elephant in the room and getting upset when someone points out that elephant is a little puzzling to me.
  • KilajoKilajo Posts: 786Registered Users
    Korkscrew wrote: »
    Kilajo wrote: »
    Korkscrew wrote: »

    Noticed someone attacked you in that other thread, accusing you of being a "4" in disguise ... the way they did it was completely obnoxious and uncalled for. And I'm sorry if my opinion has you worried that this thread will attract more commentary that is personally attacking or doesn't align with your own view.

    But for the record, I've acknowledged that people get to label themselves however they'd like. I've merely added that I find some of what motivates it kind of interesting and at times, sad. Not sure your appeal to censor the thread is the best way to handle your anxiety. Then again, the moderator will obviously step in if it's believed things on this thread will get out of hand.

    First, if you are affected by anxiety, please don't project your mental state onto me. That's your issue. Second, it doesn't really matter if this aligns with my views. I'm going to continue to give my opinions when I choose to over and over if I choose. Just as you will continue to say over and over you think some 4s have this issue. That's both of our right.

    On my EVO

    If you think "anxiety" was too strong a word for your behavior, Okay. It's just that your plea for the thread to close seemed a little ... drastic; reactionary. At any rate, I see no reason why anyone would get offended by people stating the fact that SOME (not all) type 4s have a "good hair/ bad hair" complex that gets acted out via the typing system. To pretend it doesn't ever happen seems a little disingenuous to me.

    I do believe there's an elephant in the room and getting upset when someone points out that elephant is a little puzzling to me.

    My "behavior" was typing my opinion of what you said. Since we're characterizing each other's behavior, yours seems to be that of insecurity. How dare these 4s call themselves 3s. How dare they say they have the same type as me. (Yes, that was me being facetious.) Now that's my opinion of people that have one hair type categorizing people of another as having some type of issue. And who are these people with a complex on a curly hair forum. The 4s I see on here all seem to accept their natural curls. Why shouldn't they!? Tightly coiled hair is beautiful! I think you are disingenuous by repeatedly posting about 4s having this complex when it appears that you are the one with the complex. (In other words why be so concerned with what 4s are doing?) Sorry but I'm not in the same room with you so I don't see any elephants.

    On my EVO
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Kilajo wrote: »
    My "behavior" was typing my opinion of what you said. Since we're characterizing each other's behavior, yours seems to be that of insecurity. How dare these 4s call themselves 3s.

    Interesting interpretation and I don't see that statement you're making "How dare you ..." as facetious, or even dialectical. You misunderstand: I've twice now said anyone is free to label/mislabel themselves. I've also twice stated a fact about some of the "good-hair"/"bad hair" dynamic that plays itself out via dissociation with 4 hair. If you're never heard or this happening, or you've never witnessed someone doing it, so be it. I have. We simply have different experiences and/or opinions on the matter. Nothing to get up in arms about, really. I'm not pointing to every 4, or you.

    The 4s I see on here all seem to accept their natural curls. Why shouldn't they!? Tightly coiled hair is beautiful!

    I agree that people should accept their natural curls. And I fully agree that tightly coiled hair is beautiful (just a gorgeous as any other type of curl). But that's not what society teaches people and you see THAT is why there are some coily girls - not all - who have a hard time fully accepting it (on or offline).

    As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle: there are people who love their coils, others who are Okay with them, and some who are in denial and have issues. To pretend this last mindset doesn't exist ... I'm just not sure what to tell you.
    I think you are disingenuous by repeatedly posting about 4s having this complex ...

    I've repeated my original point in order to respond to your reaction to it, otherwise I've stated it once. There's no logical reason for demonizing the content of what anyone said when it's perfectly factual. Shooting the messenger is pointless.
  • BelgraviaBelgravia Posts: 17Registered Users
    i guess what im not understanding is why are people finding it so hard to place your hair into either 1234 if your hair is curly your 3 if its kinky its 4 let others fight about the rest lol

    all the people that want a extra group for 3's are already 3 in the first place....
  • Miss_MollyMiss_Molly Posts: 10Registered Users
    Call yourself whatever you like honey.
  • curlspeakcurlspeak Posts: 18Registered Users
    Oh geez... Here we go again. :pain10:
    Why can't we just get along. If she wants to catagorize her hair as 3D why does it have to indicate she doesn't like kinky hair. Why can't it be that she can't find where she fits in that funky system and thinks there should be another catagory. Andre Walkers original system didn't even include 3C or 4C. I recall reading about 3C right here on NC in a sticky a few years ago. Why, because people didn't feel they were a 3B or a 4A so 3C was born. Same with 4C.
    I know for some this natural hair thing is a political statement, but it isn't for all of us. Some just like the way their hair looks, some were tired of being a slave to a salon, some wanted healthier hair, some wanted longer hair, some just wanted to jump on the bandwagon, and a multitude of other reasons. And for some it's a political statement.
    We shouldn't assume that her reason for suggesting a new category was anything other then what she indicated. IMO it is usually better to take a person at face value until actions or words indicate otherwise. I have found that when I make assumptions not based on fact or actions or words, it's my issue and not theirs.
    It sounds to me like she had an idea that she wanted to share.
  • MannieMannie Posts: 26Registered Users
    It's pointless to argue over something so opinionated as a inconsistent hair chart. The chart has it's flaws, which is why there is always someone asking for validation. Everyone answering isn't completely sure either if you can tell, they're just smart guesses. Opinions, it's all it is, there is no reason to argue over it. 3D or not, it was the original poster's opinion, only that. Everyone IS entitled to an opinion, and no one should adhere in violating that. It's a hair thread on a Hair-health website, how can you fight over hair?
    Hair Texture: 4a/4b/3a/3b/3c
    Predominantly 4a texture. 4B on small parts of my edges. 3C/b/a on the back and behind the ears.
    Shampoo: Taliah Waajid - Balck Earth Shampoo
    Conditioner: Taliah Waajid - Herbal conditioner
    Leave-In: Beautiful Curls/Taliah Waajid - Curl Enhancing Shea Butter Leave-In Conditioner/ leavin
    Styler: Pantene - Curly Hair style Mousse
    Taliah Waajid: Curl Sealer

    Big Chop? Hah, no.
  • steph35steph35 Posts: 176Registered Users
    Well Mannie, there's a difference between a healthy debate and fighting. I've noticed that when people of all cultures, colors and countries get together on a groundbreaking forum such as this one, many different viewpoints are presented and it's not really normal to agree with everything that is said, unless one happens to be a sheep with no brains, which....would be pretty damn boring, right?

    (you look like a younger version of a cousin of mine...you wouldn't happen to be from North Carolina...?....)

    Anyway, I'm going to go dig up the other thread on this topic because BOY I think I missed something special.
    french/black american 3b/3c/4a hair; fine n crrrrrrly
    'poo~ SheaMoisture C 'n' H (pink label)
    rinse out/leave in conditioner~ Tresemme Moisture,GVP Balm, Suave Shea and Almond
    Deep Con and Detangling~ Mixed Silk,Elasta QP (now with olive oil!)
    Stylers/Oils~ SheaMoisture DTM, Africa's Best Herbal Oil, ,Grapeseed oil/Tresemme Thermal Spray (great for diffusing/heat) all shea oils
  • steph35steph35 Posts: 176Registered Users
    .....So I just read the 9 pages on the 4a forum (daaang..you should read it!), and you know: it really IS the forum I have learned the most from (and I am def a 3c with some touches of 4a), I mean I never knew I could use drugstore conditioners and get any results, that I could use gel, the list goes on and on....meanwhile on the General Disussion forum I have tried to give advice to people with a different curl pattern (3's, I believe) and was dismissed quickly as my hair type was "different",soooo....... :blah5:

    The Andre Walker system is a joke, because he clearly believes that 4a should be chemically altered and I believe the 3c category was invented on Naturally Curly.

    4a is the place for your curls to be, my friend. Wise, insightful, informative, witty, and educational. 3c...much too quiet. Combine, I say.

    The rest of NC ain't bad either :toothy8:
    french/black american 3b/3c/4a hair; fine n crrrrrrly
    'poo~ SheaMoisture C 'n' H (pink label)
    rinse out/leave in conditioner~ Tresemme Moisture,GVP Balm, Suave Shea and Almond
    Deep Con and Detangling~ Mixed Silk,Elasta QP (now with olive oil!)
    Stylers/Oils~ SheaMoisture DTM, Africa's Best Herbal Oil, ,Grapeseed oil/Tresemme Thermal Spray (great for diffusing/heat) all shea oils
  • BlackAngelPlayahBlackAngelPlayah Posts: 1,419Registered Users
    I know this is old, but I have something to add.

    If you search hair typing charts, there is one chart that goes all the way to like F or something on each hair type. So it's not odd to see yourself as a 3d or 4f or 3f. Doesn't matter. I like the LOIS system better anyway.

    Jen :D
    :afro:FroZen:afro:
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