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Draconian?

ninja dogninja dog Posts: 23,780Registered Users

Comments

  • BekkaPooBekkaPoo Posts: 3,861Registered Users
    ninja dog wrote: »

    I don't know what the word for it would be, but I don't think you should lose custody of your kid just because they're fat. Who's to decide which kid is "too fat"? That's craziness.. that's a bit much gov't intrusion. :confused1:
    "The challenge is to be yourself in a world that is trying to make you like everybody else."
    "...rationality is not necessary to sell things.."
    My staples: Mane n Tail (cowash), Garnier Fructis Sleek n Shine (leave in condish), Grapeseed oil or shea butter (sealing), Organic Root Stimulator Elasticitea (leave-in condish & light hold)
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users
    ITA!
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • BekkaPooBekkaPoo Posts: 3,861Registered Users
    Maybe the kids' pediatrician/family doctor should have a serious talk with the parents, but in the end, people are gonna do whatever they want to do.. I realize that having a 400lb 12 year old is not really a good thing, but to remove them from the parent's custody isn't much better. I don't know really what else could/should be done.
    "The challenge is to be yourself in a world that is trying to make you like everybody else."
    "...rationality is not necessary to sell things.."
    My staples: Mane n Tail (cowash), Garnier Fructis Sleek n Shine (leave in condish), Grapeseed oil or shea butter (sealing), Organic Root Stimulator Elasticitea (leave-in condish & light hold)
  • ninja dogninja dog Posts: 23,780Registered Users
    I think it's shocking. Even a court-mandated dietary intervention would be better, although the family's civil rights would be at issue.
  • inheritedcurlsinheritedcurls Posts: 2,954Registered Users
    Okay, I'm probably going to get dinged for my response:

    Question: Should the state intervene if the child is being starved to death instead of fed to death?

    If a child died of starvation wouldn't we ask why didn't the state intervene on behalf of the child?

    I think these cases they sited were extreme cases where the parents did not have the capability of providing a healthy diet. I do however think that they should try something before it gets so bad that the only choice is to remove the child. Why not provide food stamps...that only allow them to buy healthy foods...such as fruit, milk etc? Give the parents the means to provide a healthy diet to see what happens before removing the child.

    Only future will show what the repercussions to the child was in removing that child from the home...could be good that they learn how to eat healthy...or bad in that they go the other direction (starvation) so that they never leave their parents again.
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    Yes it is extreme, but I also find a 555 lb 14 year old extreme. I don't know if taking them away is the answer, but it's horrible that kids are getting to these sizes and facing the associated health issues. IMO, it's a form of neglect.
  • ninja dogninja dog Posts: 23,780Registered Users
    I see your point, IC, and agree.
  • BekkaPooBekkaPoo Posts: 3,861Registered Users
    Okay, I'm probably going to get dinged for my response:

    Question: Should the state intervene if the child is being starved to death instead of fed to death?

    If a child died of starvation wouldn't we ask why didn't the state intervene on behalf of the child?

    I think these cases they sited were extreme cases where the parents did not have the capability of providing a healthy diet. I do however think that they should try something before it gets so bad that the only choice is to remove the child. Why not provide food stamps...that only allow them to buy healthy foods...such as fruit, milk etc? Give the parents the means to provide a healthy diet to see what happens before removing the child.

    Only future will show what the repercussions to the child was in removing that child from the home...could be good that they learn how to eat healthy...or bad in that they go the other direction (starvation) so that they never leave their parents again.

    Good question.. but what is the answer? I do agree that letting a child get that big is way out of line, and it's just as bad as starving a child to death. I don't think many people would be too happy if they thought their tax dollars were going towards extremely obese people and their obese children and forcing them to buy veggies and lean meat. I'm not arguing, but just saying.. this is a tough one.
    gemini wrote: »
    Yes it is extreme, but I also find a 555 lb 14 year old extreme. I don't know if taking them away is the answer, but it's horrible that kids are getting to these sizes and facing the associated health issues. IMO, it's a form of neglect.

    Maybe if it was prosecuted as child neglect they could get the child removed from the home, but then what..? Again it's a really tough question to answer..
    "The challenge is to be yourself in a world that is trying to make you like everybody else."
    "...rationality is not necessary to sell things.."
    My staples: Mane n Tail (cowash), Garnier Fructis Sleek n Shine (leave in condish), Grapeseed oil or shea butter (sealing), Organic Root Stimulator Elasticitea (leave-in condish & light hold)
  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    When the government bans advertising of junk food to kids, sets some real nutritional guidelines that are not based on corporate lobbying efforts, and starts farm subsidies for fruit and vegetables instead of corn and soybean oil, then they get to take kids away from their parents for being too fat.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    BekkaPoo wrote: »
    I don't think many people would be too happy if they thought their tax dollars were going towards extremely obese people and their obese children and forcing them to buy veggies and lean meat. I'm not arguing, but just saying.. this is a tough one.

    Sadly people's tax dollars are already going towards extremely obese people buying junk and crap. That's the American way though.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • ninja dogninja dog Posts: 23,780Registered Users
    Sigh.

    The state of food in our country saddens me.
  • BekkaPooBekkaPoo Posts: 3,861Registered Users
    geeky wrote: »
    When the government bans advertising of junk food to kids, sets some real nutritional guidelines that are not based on corporate lobbying efforts, and starts farm subsidies for fruit and vegetables instead of corn and soybean oil, then they get to take kids away from their parents for being too fat.

    True true.. I didn't think about to myriad terrible farm subsidies that go towards the most unhealthy foods out there.
    "The challenge is to be yourself in a world that is trying to make you like everybody else."
    "...rationality is not necessary to sell things.."
    My staples: Mane n Tail (cowash), Garnier Fructis Sleek n Shine (leave in condish), Grapeseed oil or shea butter (sealing), Organic Root Stimulator Elasticitea (leave-in condish & light hold)
  • subbrocksubbrock Posts: 8,212Registered Users
    i definitely don't think obese children should be taken away from their parents but i think extremely unhealthy children (whether it be obese or malnourished) should be assigned a court/government appointed nutritionist. i work with a lot of "high risk" families and one day we had a workshop about healthy eating. i was astonished to see children, parents, and even grandparents who had never seen or tasted common fresh fruits and veggies. one grandmother pointed to a stalk of celery and asked what it was and if it was edible. i did a lesson with a mother of a 2 yr old and she had never heard of the snack "ants on a log" but once she did see the recipe, she thought it was a great idea. there is another boy in our program who is 3 yrs old and at least 90 lbs. his mother is obese as well.

    i've come to realize a lot of these families don't do better because they just don't have the information. but once they do have the info, they're eager to implement it.
  • ninja dogninja dog Posts: 23,780Registered Users
    subbrock wrote: »
    i definitely don't think obese children should be taken away from their parents but i think extremely unhealthy children (whether it be obese or malnourished) should be assigned a court/government appointed nutritionist. i work with a lot of "high risk" families and one day we had a workshop about healthy eating. i was astonished to see children, parents, and even grandparents who had never seen or tasted common fresh fruits and veggies. one grandmother pointed to a stalk of celery and asked what it was and if it was edible. i did a lesson with a mother of a 2 yr old and she had never heard of the snack "ants on a log" but once she did see the recipe, she thought it was a great idea. there is another boy in our program who is 3 yrs old and at least 90 lbs. his mother is obese as well.

    i've come to realize a lot of these families don't do better because they just don't have the information. but once they do have the info, they're eager to implement it.

    This is why I'm sad about food.
  • inheritedcurlsinheritedcurls Posts: 2,954Registered Users
    I agree Subbrock...if we spent our tax money up front to educate and provide these families the means to buy only "Healthy" food then maybe we wouldn't spend the tax money on the back end...paying for the health issues caused by obesity. As I said before, if they are given the means..and the child is still obese...then the state should intervene.

    That is sad that some families have never eaten fresh fruit or knew what celery was.
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users
    I agree Subbrock...if we spent our tax money up front to educate and provide these families the means to buy only "Healthy" food then maybe we wouldn't spend the tax money on the back end...paying for the health issues caused by obesity. As I said before, if they are given the means..and the child is still obese...then the state should intervene.

    That is sad that some families have never eaten fresh fruit or knew what celery was.

    This is the much better way, rather than just removing the child from the home. Things won't really improve until whole families are educated - that's definitely money better spent. Kind of like it being better to teach someone to fish than to just give them fish.

    Still, as much as is all over the media about diet and nutrition in this day, it's hard to understand how people don't just pick a lot of it up almost by osmosis, whether they're actually seeking the info or not.
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • Jess the MessJess the Mess Posts: 5,844Registered Users
    Not completely on topic but a few weeks ago my son and I were walking past a small mexican market. A woman was outside and asked if we wanted info on healthy mexican cooking. I said "Yes!" I was given a cookbook on ways to add veggies and cut out bad fats from a lot of my favorite mexican dishes. Made me happy. Also the program was funded by the state.
    High Priestess JessMess, follower of the Goddess of the Coiling Way and Confiscator of Concoctions in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

  • subbrocksubbrock Posts: 8,212Registered Users
    ^^^ That's really cool! I know our state hands out really nice cookbooks with recipes using fresh fruits and veggies. And with WIC they have started including a $10 voucher for fresh produce.

    The workshop I mentioned with the celery incident was bittersweet. Most of the fruits the children had never seen and/or tasted before--blueberries, strawberries, pineapple. We had a whole pineapple and I couldn't help but laugh at how the families would go out of their way not to touch it. I think they were afraid of it. We also had celery, bell peppers, and broccoli. I think everyone knew what broccoli was (which surprised me) but none of them had ever had it sans cheese or raw. My favorite part was just watching the kids faces as they tried the foods for the first time. For the most part, they spat everything right out. But their faces were priceless.

    Blame it on the cell phone...
  • legendslegends Posts: 3,073Registered Users
    A few years ago there was a story about a super-obese toddler removed from his mother's custody because of his obesity. This was somewhere in the midwest. I mentioned the story to my social worker relatives and friends and asked them if that would happen here, and every one of them said something to the effect of, "No, we have too many real abuse cases that we can't keep up with. How nice for that state that they have so few problems that they get to make **** up to keep themselves busy."

    I really hate when people are so casual about breaking up families. It demonstrates such a huge ignorance and naivete about the foster care system, for one. And it's just plain arrogant...all those people who think removing children from their homes is such a good idea should be given custody of those children.
    Hey, if they believe they're such perfect parents let them prove it. And if they fail, let them face some kind of punishment.

    I'm only being slightly facetious here.
    Eres o te haces?
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    geeky wrote: »
    When the government bans advertising of junk food to kids, sets some real nutritional guidelines that are not based on corporate lobbying efforts, and starts farm subsidies for fruit and vegetables instead of corn and soybean oil, then they get to take kids away from their parents for being too fat.

    I agree.
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    Not completely on topic but a few weeks ago my son and I were walking past a small mexican market. A woman was outside and asked if we wanted info on healthy mexican cooking. I said "Yes!" I was given a cookbook on ways to add veggies and cut out bad fats from a lot of my favorite mexican dishes. Made me happy. Also the program was funded by the state.

    That is cool, though there is a segment of the population that screeches about government telling us what to eat (see also Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" cause). I have no problem if my taxes went toward something like this. On the other end we will bear less of the medical expenses related to obesity. :)
  • Jess the MessJess the Mess Posts: 5,844Registered Users
    subbrock wrote: »
    ^^^ That's really cool! I know our state hands out really nice cookbooks with recipes using fresh fruits and veggies. And with WIC they have started including a $10 voucher for fresh produce.
    That's awesome that WIC is doing fresh produce now too. They didn't when I was using it. Good for them.

    I was at a BBQ yesterday and there was a mother there with an extremely obese 3 year old. He wasn't just a fat toddler. He had a huge belly that hung very far over his swim trunks. I hate to judge but I felt really bad for that child and because of it was not interested in talking to that mother. The mother wasn't overweight at all which surprised me.

    I wouldn't suggest taking him away but I wish she was better educated/cared more.
    High Priestess JessMess, follower of the Goddess of the Coiling Way and Confiscator of Concoctions in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    subbrock wrote: »
    ^^^ That's really cool! I know our state hands out really nice cookbooks with recipes using fresh fruits and veggies. And with WIC they have started including a $10 voucher for fresh produce.
    That's awesome that WIC is doing fresh produce now too. They didn't when I was using it. Good for them.

    I was at a BBQ yesterday and there was a mother there with an extremely obese 3 year old. He wasn't just a fat toddler. He had a huge belly that hung very far over his swim trunks. I hate to judge but I felt really bad for that child and because of it was not interested in talking to that mother. The mother wasn't overweight at all which surprised me.

    I wouldn't suggest taking him away but I wish she was better educated/cared more.

    The fact that there was a time when WIC did not allow fresh produce and that adding it as a fairly recent thing is f----ing insane
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.