CurlTalk

there's something wrong with my hair....

Hi everyone! I've been lurking here for about three months and have enjoyed everyone's posts, techniques, etc. You guys have been so much help! However, I have a really icky problem.

I have been CG for about 2 1/2 months. Yeah, at first my hair was stringy and looked worse but after a couple weeks my hair looked better than ever. Then...about 2 weeks ago my hair started looking worse. First of all, my hair is frizzy in the shower...yup, when it's wet. It has a bunch of tiny hairs sticking out from all the curls and it dries this way too. When I put products in my hair it feels like they don't really get absorbed or are able to get in. The squishiness when I pump or scrunch my curls isn't nearly how it used to feel. My curls are limp and overly soft and just gross. And no matter what I do they aren't defined. And i STILL have that awful frizz in between my curls and all over my canopy.

I feel like I've tried everything. I've researched on here ever since this happened. I've read about frizz with soaking wet hair, overconditioned hair, protein sensitive hair, hair with build up... nothing has helped. I've done a couple ACV rinses, tried proteining my hair with J-Pak...tried moisturizing my hair more...I even broke down and low pood my hair last night with TJ's shampoo. Nothing has helped or made a difference. I'm at my wit's end. My hair didn't even look this bad when I was not CG. and I've NEVER had problems with this in between the curls frizz. Also: Really weird but I've been using the same amount of product since I started CG and I would use enough that after my hair dried it would be semi crunchy so I would SOTC right?! Well, I put in the same amount that there's no crunch to scrunch out. How is that possible? Where the heck is my product going?

I've been using Sauve naturals pomegranite as my co-wash, Conditioning balm (salley's value one) as my rinse out and AOHR as my leave in... then I use Kinky curly custard and BRHG...

I have 2C hair with some 3A thrown in..my hair is course.

Please ladies, help me! Sorry this is so long.

beforehaircut3.jpgThis is
my hair a few weeks before...
mailgooglecom.jpgAs is this
one....

This is my hair now: hardly any curl and massive frizz in between
frizz.jpg

Comments

  • sleepyjesssleepyjess Posts: 297Registered Users
    Were there cones in your last sulfate shampoo? That messed me up when I first started.
    Oregon curly!
    Fine hair; weighed down easily; high porosity; prone to flyaways & The Bedhead Look
    2b? (or not 2b? Heehee.)
    Mod-CG since Nov '10
    Cowash: VO5 Calming Chamomile
    RO: Desert Essences Coconut
    Gel: Pantene Curls Gel, LALSG
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fsleepyjess%2F" class="Popup (updated: 5.28.11)

    "She may be afraid of trees. But when push comes to shove, she won't let you drink the shampoo. No matter how good it smells."

    :faroah:Visit me! /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fnakedsquid.blogspot.com" class="Popup
  • jessiesmashjessiesmash Posts: 7Registered Users
    WOW! I am having the same EXACT problem from hair type to the amount of time I've been CG!!!!

    Everything matches from the weird gel results to the limp yuckiness to everything and everything!!

    I just looked and the shampoo i started with, Garnier Sleek & Shine Fortifying Shampoo, has Amodimethicone in it. I dont really want to put sulfates in my hair again but i am so desparate, I might as well try it even if it sets me back a few months (does anyone know if it will do this?? i dont really want to go back to square 1 by just using sulfates once)

    Is there another way to get out the Amodimethicone without using a sulphate shampoo?

    I hope we both find the solutioon to our problems!!
  • missy15344missy15344 Posts: 9Registered Users
    I don't think so. I just used HE totally twisted shampoo...and my hair doesn't feel dirty or build up-y. Thanks for your reply tho! :wink:
  • missy15344missy15344 Posts: 9Registered Users
    Jessie..I think Amodimethicone is a water-soluble cone...but I could be wrong. Is there anyway you could post a pic of your hair?
  • jessiesmashjessiesmash Posts: 7Registered Users
    Mine doesn't feel dirty or buildupy either, but I think with my "last sulfate shampoo ever" i accidentally put in some silicones too.

    If u look at the ingredients for yours Clairol*Herbal Essences Totally Twisted Curls and Waves Shampoo | Walgreens

    It has dimethicone, which is a "big name" in silicones so maybe we have the same problem (if that is the problem)

    EDIT: didn't see your other post. http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/whats-the-scoop-on-silicones
    According to this mine isn't soluble. I can't post a pic sry privacy worries lol
  • missy15344missy15344 Posts: 9Registered Users
    OMG. You're totally right! What the hell!? I'm so angry! (Not at you, Jessie!) I just was certain I was doing everything right...and then an ugly little cone rears it's ugly head. grrrr! I am kinda confused with what is a "good vs. bad" cone then. I got my info from here
    Girl with Curl: Curly Girl Method Approved Products

    But I guess you're right. Yours is (according to this website) a slightly water soluble cone. And mine is bad either way you look at it.
  • jessiesmashjessiesmash Posts: 7Registered Users
    I'm going to try to pick up some low-poo with coco betaine in it so that I don't have to use sulfates... now which one to get without spending a lot of money hmm... mb i'll stop by TJ after work. i hope this fixes it!

    I'm angry too cuz i also thought i was doin a good job!! LOL guess not
  • missy15344missy15344 Posts: 9Registered Users
    I am using one of trader joe's low poo's. Well, I used it last night. But I don't know if low pooing our hair (even multiple times) will completely get rid of this. I guess I'll check the ingredients on the back and see if any of them are the cleaning agents recommended to get rid of them. I wonder if this is really our problem or just a coincidence?
  • jessiesmashjessiesmash Posts: 7Registered Users
    Maybe. but coco betaine is listed as a cleaner but i'm not sure if the TJ shampoos have it.
  • swtndspcyswtndspcy Posts: 692Registered Users
    Common misconception, the A-cone is water soluble when combined with certain ingredients in the BOTTLE only. Once applied to hair, it forms the 'cone film and is no longer water soluble. Though it is debated on whether or not it continues to build up on the hair after the film is formed, so it's considered a slightly soluble 'cone. I still use some products with the A-cone's low on the list, and use a low-poo once a week to remove them with no problem, though I do try to avoid them.
    This article explains which 'cones are water soluble and which aren't. And what types of surfactants you need to remove them.
    In general, I think staying completely 'cone free for a while after going CG is a good idea until you learn which ones are which and which will wash with low-poo or co-washes.
    HTH

    ETA: Don't worry about setbacks, I think we all have them. And I know a lot of mod CGers who routinely do sulfate poo's to clarify build up from products and hard water. Just make sure you do a DT if you sulfate wash. It shouldn't take too long to bounce back.
  • missy15344missy15344 Posts: 9Registered Users
    argg! According to naturallycurly and another website, HE TT shampoo doesn't have that cone. So confused! I wonder which one is correct? Oh well. I threw away that bottle a long time ago. :(

    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlproducts/view/1912/herbal-essences-totally-twisted-curls-and-waves-shampoo-with-french-lavender-twist-jade-extracts
  • sleepyjesssleepyjess Posts: 297Registered Users
    I agree with swtnspcy, I have to do a sulfate wash once a month to keep my hair from hard water build up, and my hair doesn't suffer too much, as long as I condition well afterward. (It's much better than the sulfate washes I was doing daily before CG, haha...)

    Doing one sulfate wash just to get the last of the cones out will definitely help in the long run, and then you'll also have peace of mind that you got all the cones out.
    Oregon curly!
    Fine hair; weighed down easily; high porosity; prone to flyaways & The Bedhead Look
    2b? (or not 2b? Heehee.)
    Mod-CG since Nov '10
    Cowash: VO5 Calming Chamomile
    RO: Desert Essences Coconut
    Gel: Pantene Curls Gel, LALSG
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fsleepyjess%2F" class="Popup (updated: 5.28.11)

    "She may be afraid of trees. But when push comes to shove, she won't let you drink the shampoo. No matter how good it smells."

    :faroah:Visit me! /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fnakedsquid.blogspot.com" class="Popup
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users
    I agree with your advice to the OP, but I don't agree that you need a sulfate poo in order to remove hard water deposits from your hair. EDTA, and other chelating agents will remove/prevent them, and the VO5 Herbal Escapes or Suave Naturals Conditioners contain EDTA. We have very hard water, and regularly washing my hair with one or the other has effectively prevented hard water buildup problems. (I haven't used a sulfate shampoo since July '08.)
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • sleepyjesssleepyjess Posts: 297Registered Users
    I agree with your advice to the OP, but I don't agree that you need a sulfate poo in order to remove hard water deposits from your hair. EDTA, and other chelating agents will remove/prevent them, and the VO5 Herbal Escapes or Suave Naturals Conditioners contain EDTA. We have very hard water, and I regularly washing my hair with one or the other has effectively prevented hard water buildup problems. (I haven't used a sulfate shampoo since July '08.)

    Oooh, I didn't know those had EDTA. Thanks for mentioning it!
    Oregon curly!
    Fine hair; weighed down easily; high porosity; prone to flyaways & The Bedhead Look
    2b? (or not 2b? Heehee.)
    Mod-CG since Nov '10
    Cowash: VO5 Calming Chamomile
    RO: Desert Essences Coconut
    Gel: Pantene Curls Gel, LALSG
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fsleepyjess%2F" class="Popup (updated: 5.28.11)

    "She may be afraid of trees. But when push comes to shove, she won't let you drink the shampoo. No matter how good it smells."

    :faroah:Visit me! /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fnakedsquid.blogspot.com" class="Popup
  • missy15344missy15344 Posts: 9Registered Users
    Jessiesmash, how is your hair doing? Mine is the worst it's been....I added some pictures of my hair before and my current hair. I feel like I've tried everything with no results. My hair obviously doesn't like something I'm doing but I can't figure out what.

    I am this close to just throwing in the towel and giving up CG. My hair didn't do this with cones. :(
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 6,280Registered Users
    I used to get in between frizz like that (I still get some and have learned to accept that it's just my natural hair) but I found using products with oil in helped a lot.

    I expect you haven't found the right ingredients/combo thats works for you yet. It can take time.

    I make FSG and add jojoba oil or hempseed oil to it and use a conditioner with oil and that has improved my curls so much.
  • bigredapmibigredapmi Posts: 229Registered Users
    you're oc'd.
    3a/3b coarse and thick.....big and red

    Advanced Deva inspired Stylist
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    At some point, your hair will get better. You just have to find out what works for you as far as technique and ingredients go. Many of the products, especially the mass produced, commercial ones, change the ingredients. Websites frequently have old ingredient lists. Sometimes the labels are wrong, too (Deva changed their ingredients and used old labels for a LONG time.) It can be hard to know.

    My hair gets like that and it's not from over conditioning. It's from build up when I use gels that have chemicals in them--like polyquats. It takes a good lowpoo for me to get rid of the build up and back to normal.

    The other culprit in this could be the Joico K-Pak. It contains mineral oil. For me, and many others, it's a BIG problem. Coats my hair and makes it look dry and greasy at the same time. It takes several lowpoos to remove it. The last time I made that mistake, it took a few lowpoos and 7-10 days for my hair to get back to normal.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TrixieTrixie Posts: 260Registered Users
    I agree with Kathymack about the mineral oil. It also takes me several washes to get it completely out of my hair. For me, it's much worse than any kind of silicone in terms of removal. I also am one who needs to clarify occasionally with a sulfate shampoo. I actually find that a sulfate shampoo can really put the spring back in my waves,

    And like everyone has been saying, don't give up! It just takes time to figure out a routine and products that work for you!
    Somewhere between a 2b/c and a 3a

    Current product favorites
    Cleansers: Giovanni TTTT shampoo, Deva No-Poo, Tresemme Naturals Moisturizing Conditioner
    Conditioners: Tigi Moisture Maniac, Yes to Cucumbers, GVP Conditioning Balm, AOHR
    Stylers/Gels: KCCC, SS CEJ and FHG, AOMM, BRHG, LA Looks Sport Gel, Lustrasilk (winter), Pink Boots (winter)
    Henna glosses!
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users
    Amiodimethicone is not a slightly soluble cone. That's really not a category of silicones. It is soluble in the right solvents. A'cone is soluble in low-poos. It is not soluble in water. So no amount of water will dissolve it, but low-poos will.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • missbanjomissbanjo Posts: 3,088Registered Users
    I can't keep track of the 'cones so I just avoid them altogether. Too many different ones, too many products changing, etc. I just look at the label when I buy something new.

    Sent from my LGAlly using CurlTalk App
    Southern Colorado Curly
    Mix of 2s med-low porosity, med-fine texture, lots of hair
  • Jelly.ViJelly.Vi Posts: 103Registered Users
    Trixie wrote: »
    I agree with Kathymack about the mineral oil. It also takes me several washes to get it completely out of my hair. For me, it's much worse than any kind of silicone in terms of removal. I also am one who needs to clarify occasionally with a sulfate shampoo. I actually find that a sulfate shampoo can really put the spring back in my waves,

    And like everyone has been saying, don't give up! It just takes time to figure out a routine and products that work for you!

    I also agree with both these curlies (:

    I think you should sulfate poo, to have a clean slate and make sure you have gotten everything out, as well as peace of mind. Suave naturals are pretty cheap and good for any future mishaps.

    I also think you should look into lowpoos to use regularly, many curlies here start off strictly cg and add a lowpoo. Over time some of us just get build up/film from even cg products, as kathymac stated. It makes it more difficult for hair to absorb products as well as when you first started, from your initial 'clean slate'.

    I know after i lowpoo my hair feels drier in the shower, but it better absorbs conditioner right when i apply it, and stays this way for a week or two, before i need to lowpoo again. Which imo is better in the long run.

    Since you already use gvp balm from sally's i would like to reccommend to you ion effective care from there. Some people say its more of a DT than a PT but all the same it has protein in it. At first i used it for 3-5 days straight, and it really helped my hair's strength/elasticity, along with root curl. It also didnt make it dry and brittle like a hardcore protein treatments (all at once). This way you can sort of gauge how much more protein you need, and just keep using it as your hair needs, and stop/slow if it starts to feel too rough/dry.

    Also if you do decide to lowpoo but arent comfortable with the idea of the dryness/frizz or if you ever use too much protein, i reccommend spritz and condish method. I think it really helps moisture and moisture retention.
  • swtndspcyswtndspcy Posts: 692Registered Users
    Amiodimethicone is not a slightly soluble cone. That's really not a category of silicones. It is soluble in the right solvents. A'cone is soluble in low-poos. It is not soluble in water. So no amount of water will dissolve it, but low-poos will.
    I was clarifying because a lot of non water soluble cone vs. water soluble cone lists, has it listed as "slightly soluble". It is water soluble in the bottle, when mixed with certain other ingredients, but not after being applied to hair. After which you do need SLS, ALS, cocamidopropyl betaine, or coco betaine to remove it. Some low poo's contain even milder ingredients which won't remove it.
    But I do agree that a cone is either water soluble or not, when speaking of whether or not water will remove it from hair (like we care if it disperses in water in the bottle or not.. we just want to know how it effects our hair!).
  • missy15344missy15344 Posts: 9Registered Users
    Thanks girls for all your great answers. I still have no idea what's wrong with my hair. I'm really ashamed to admit this but I honestly thought that using cones/sulfates again would make my hair look better. Um, NOT. I tried that today (I used sulfate shampoo and Tigi Catwalk Curlesque) and I had the worst hair day EVER. I guess I'm going back to CG. I just don't know what to do. I guess I'll do a good sulfate wash to get all this crap out and then start using CG products again. Could I be sensitive to aloe?
  • RustinaRustina Posts: 894Registered Users
    missy, do you know your hair's properties? Texture, porosity, and elasticity? I haven't seen any mention of that on the thread yet. If not, that's the best place to start. With all the different products you've been trying, you could be using all the wrong things on your hair without even knowing it.

    Texture is important because it'll tell you if your hair needs moisture, protein, or both. Porosity tells you if your hair strand loses moisture too easily (or has a hard time taking it in). Read this page, and see if you can identify your texture and porosity:

    Live Curly Live Free - Curly Hair Basics

    If you have a hard time determining your properties, as I did, I highly recommend the hair analysis service. For $12.95, you can send in samples of your hair and they'll tell you your properties:

    Live Curly Live Free - Hair Analysis

    If you'd also like product recommendations, so you have a place to start with what to use on your hair, you could go to LCLF's sister site instead and get the premium profile for $19.95, which includes the hair analysis AND product recommendations:

    Curl Wizard - CurlGenie Profiles

    I can't even begin to tell you how much having this done reduced my frustration and finally put me on the road to having healthy, pretty curls. The analysis and recommendations were spot on, and my hair is finally starting to look and feel as it should.

    HTH.
    Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
    Northern VA
    Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
    Dye-free since 11/2010