CurlTalk

Loose waves? Hard hair out? Help :(

•Last night, i did an overnight deep treatment (honey, olive oil with a little bit of suave juicy green apple) when i washed it out in the morning, my wavy curls became loose and beachy wavy but super soft and smooth. My hair is naturally botticelli when encouraged. What can i do to make it tight-ish again?

•My hair is fairly soft and smooth but when i step out of the house, in minutes it turns rough and hard and snaggy? It pretty much happens when i'm in an open space. But when im in small enclosed areas like vehicles and houses sometimes malls but very seldom, it's soft and smooth. How can i keep it soft and smooth wherever i go? :(


Thank You.


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Comments

  • oh.hi.its.stephoh.hi.its.steph Posts: 640Registered Users
    I'm fairly new to CG but from what I understand, maybe your hair is now overly moisturized? Whenever that happens hair tends to get limp and mushy-soft. You probably just need a little bit of protein to balance out all that moisture.

    But I don't know for sure... what are the properties of your hair? Coarse or fine? etc etc etc. If we know that, more of us can help you! :)
    whurly girly (2C/3A).
    thick; medium/coarse; low porosity.
    hair that is drier than the sahara desert.

    LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
    CO: L'Oreal EverCreme Cleansing Conditioner
    RO: Renpure Keratin Conditioner. New HG!
    LI: L'Oreal EverSleek Humidity-Defying LI Creme
    Styling: SM Curl Milk, Argan Oil for sealing, sometimes GFPC Gel, some honey for hold, TIGI Control Freak Serum!!
  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    Coarse. Thick. High porosity. Low elasticity. Im a 2a if i dont encourage my curls but when i do, i can get a mix of 2b-3a.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • oh.hi.its.stephoh.hi.its.steph Posts: 640Registered Users
    Hmm, you just may need a bit of protein then. We have fairly similar hair I think :) Mine was extremely porous from daily straightening and coloring it all the time, but it has since gotten a lot healthier. You might need a quick PT (like 2-3 minutes, not a super-deep 30 minute one?) to repair the "holes" in your hair (porosity) and then follow that with a DT so that you don't get protein overload (which coarse hair can be prone to).

    That's my suggestion, at least :) What other products do you use for styling?
    whurly girly (2C/3A).
    thick; medium/coarse; low porosity.
    hair that is drier than the sahara desert.

    LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
    CO: L'Oreal EverCreme Cleansing Conditioner
    RO: Renpure Keratin Conditioner. New HG!
    LI: L'Oreal EverSleek Humidity-Defying LI Creme
    Styling: SM Curl Milk, Argan Oil for sealing, sometimes GFPC Gel, some honey for hold, TIGI Control Freak Serum!!
  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    Hmm, you just may need a bit of protein then. We have fairly similar hair I think :) Mine was extremely porous from daily straightening and coloring it all the time, but it has since gotten a lot healthier. You might need a quick PT (like 2-3 minutes, not a super-deep 30 minute one?) to repair the "holes" in your hair (porosity) and then follow that with a DT so that you don't get protein overload (which coarse hair can be prone to).

    That's my suggestion, at least :) What other products do you use for styling?

    Oooh. I only have the keratin treatment tub that i have to leave in for 20-an hour. Dyou know any diy treatments that doesnt include eggs?

    I use My co wash suave naturals as a leave in and a local but cg friendly gel or a non cg friendly mousse but i low poo.

    Thank you.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • oh.hi.its.stephoh.hi.its.steph Posts: 640Registered Users
    Hmm to be honest I'm not so sure about any DIY protein treatments. I don't want to suggest anything and be totally off. I would suggest going to the product board or the DIY board and asking them, since they're bound to be waaaay more knowledgeable about it than I am :) But whichever one you choose I would suggest only leaving it on for like, 10 minutes at the maximum and seeing how your hair responds. Better a little less than way too much!

    Also... from past experience with my hair and mousse, which left it a totally gunky mess, I would suggest avoiding it. Mousse can sometimes be drying (which would explain the "hard hair"). Maybe don't use it for a day, and use more gel instead, and see how your hair responds to that?

    Try both of these suggestions and see what works the best :) Doing a PT/DT will help your hair out no matter what, and it'll also let you know if that was the problem entirely or if you also need to change what you use to style.
    whurly girly (2C/3A).
    thick; medium/coarse; low porosity.
    hair that is drier than the sahara desert.

    LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
    CO: L'Oreal EverCreme Cleansing Conditioner
    RO: Renpure Keratin Conditioner. New HG!
    LI: L'Oreal EverSleek Humidity-Defying LI Creme
    Styling: SM Curl Milk, Argan Oil for sealing, sometimes GFPC Gel, some honey for hold, TIGI Control Freak Serum!!
  • swtndspcyswtndspcy Posts: 692Registered Users
    This is the one I use. It works great, you can go for a light PT (5 minutes) or super protein and blow dry it in (like aphogee 2 step). Plus, unflavored gelatin is super cheap, and it's really easy.
  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    Hmm to be honest I'm not so sure about any DIY protein treatments. I don't want to suggest anything and be totally off. I would suggest going to the product board or the DIY board and asking them, since they're bound to be waaaay more knowledgeable about it than I am :) But whichever one you choose I would suggest only leaving it on for like, 10 minutes at the maximum and seeing how your hair responds. Better a little less than way too much!

    Also... from past experience with my hair and mousse, which left it a totally gunky mess, I would suggest avoiding it. Mousse can sometimes be drying (which would explain the "hard hair"). Maybe don't use it for a day, and use more gel instead, and see how your hair responds to that?

    Try both of these suggestions and see what works the best :) Doing a PT/DT will help your hair out no matter what, and it'll also let you know if that was the problem entirely or if you also need to change what you use to style.

    Okay. I'll check on that. Thanks! :)

    My hair likes mousse more than gel. My hair hates gel. But i'll maybe try it again sometime.


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  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    swtndspcy wrote: »
    This is the one I use. It works great, you can go for a light PT (5 minutes) or super protein and blow dry it in (like aphogee 2 step). Plus, unflavored gelatin is super cheap, and it's really easy.

    Okay. Thank you. I'll try that one out. :)


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • wavynwild16wavynwild16 Posts: 2,121Registered Users
    Rough and hard hair sounds like too much protein. You might want to do some more deep moisturizing treatments, start sealing with oil, or use some leave in conditioner, if you don't already. Coarse hair is very prone to too much protein, because we have so much of it in our hair already! It feels straw-like, hard, and brittle when you have too much protein. The mousse you're using might also have alcohol in it, and your hair is getting dried out from that.

    HTH!
    Type 2c/3a with lots of hair and a super sensitive scalp! Med/slightly coarse texture, low porosity and elasticity.

    Favorite...
    Low poo: Organix TTM, Essential Wholesale Free & Clean
    RO/LI: TN, GFTN, YTC
    Stylers: EcoStylers, GF Curl Shaping Gel, Aussie Aussome Volume Mousse & Instant Freeze Gel, GFPC, LALNC, La Bella Lots of Curls, Apricot Oil, KMFUM, AO B5DG
    Extras: sugar scrubs, AVG washes, pre-poos with EVCO, oiling scalp before washes, plopping, gelatin PT.
    Mod-CG since 12/1/10! :happy7:
  • pedahehpedaheh Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    Sounds like you may have a couple issues going on. It sounds as if the olive oil may have made your hair a bit too oily?? If this is the case, it may just take a few more washes to remove it.

    Porous and coarse hair is much more difficult to get the right amount of protein. Porous hair needs protein and coarse hair gets over proteined easily. This thread may give you ideas on how to deal with coarse/porous hair.
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/high-porosity/121165-porous-coarse-share-your-hair-biography.html
    I don't know enough about porous/coarse hair to say for sure, but 20minutes to 1 hour sounds like too much protein. Look in the thread above, I may be wrong.

    What are your dew points? High? Low? This might explain why your hair reacts differently outdoors. If it is low dews and use humectants, your hair will lose moisture outside and become dryer.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpedaheh.blogspot.com%2F" class="Popup (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
    2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
    Cowash: Tresemme naturals
    Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
    Curl enhancer: FSG
    Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
    PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
    Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
  • oh.hi.its.stephoh.hi.its.steph Posts: 640Registered Users
    pedaheh wrote: »
    Porous and coarse hair is much more difficult to get the right amount of protein. Porous hair needs protein and coarse hair gets over proteined easily. This thread may give you ideas on how to deal with coarse/porous hair.
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/high-porosity/121165-porous-coarse-share-your-hair-biography.html
    I don't know enough about porous/coarse hair to say for sure, but 20minutes to 1 hour sounds like too much protein. Look in the thread above, I may be wrong.

    Yeah, definitely read that link, it helped me out a lot too :) And she's right about you needing to be careful with protein. Definitely do a PT for 10 minutes or less, haha. Too much moisture is easy to fix, but too much protein can be terrible!
    whurly girly (2C/3A).
    thick; medium/coarse; low porosity.
    hair that is drier than the sahara desert.

    LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
    CO: L'Oreal EverCreme Cleansing Conditioner
    RO: Renpure Keratin Conditioner. New HG!
    LI: L'Oreal EverSleek Humidity-Defying LI Creme
    Styling: SM Curl Milk, Argan Oil for sealing, sometimes GFPC Gel, some honey for hold, TIGI Control Freak Serum!!
  • swtndspcyswtndspcy Posts: 692Registered Users
    Ha, I wouldn't know about too much protein, I do pretty intense PT's weekly and have a lot of protein in my products, as long as I counter it with a lot of moisture my hair loves it. I keep forgetting courser haired curlies may not tolerate it well! If you do use the PT I posted, definitely go for a light PT, 5 minutes no heat and use a DT after to restore moisture.

    I have been pretty puzzled about the soft hair indoors vs. rough hair outdoors. The only thing I can come up with is maybe dry air and humectants? You could try sealing with an anti humectant oil when hair is wet to seal in moisture. And try cutting back on humectants (like honey). Other than that, I am pretty stumped.
  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    I dont know about dew points and humectants and stuffs. There's just too much going on. Can you explain it "for dummies" version? Please and thank you. Btw, it's about 35-40C here these days and the air isreallyreally dry and hot. And i havent washed my hair yet.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • oh.hi.its.stephoh.hi.its.steph Posts: 640Registered Users
    gianna910 wrote: »
    I dont know about dew points and humectants and stuffs. There's just too much going on. Can you explain it "for dummies" version? Please and thank you. Btw, it's about 35-40C here these days and the air isreallyreally dry and hot. And i havent washed my hair yet.

    Oh, well that could explain a lot. Basically, humectants are responsible for causing frizz in high or low dew points -- dew points lower than 20 or 30, and dew points higher than 60 or 70. They basically cause your hair to absorb/maintain a LOT of moisture in high humidity and it swells/frizzes a lot. Glycerin is probably the most common humectant, I see it in almost every single hair product, haha.

    You may want to try to look for hair products that have humectants either not in them at all, or extremely low on the list of products.

    Here are some helpful threads:
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/126265-how-does-your-routine-change-summer.html
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/126116-subsitutes-my-high-humectant-products-now-dews-rising.html
    Humidity, Humectants and Hair | NaturallyCurly.com (very technical description of humectants. It also includes a list of humectants towards the bottom -- look at those, and then see if your products contain those)
    whurly girly (2C/3A).
    thick; medium/coarse; low porosity.
    hair that is drier than the sahara desert.

    LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
    CO: L'Oreal EverCreme Cleansing Conditioner
    RO: Renpure Keratin Conditioner. New HG!
    LI: L'Oreal EverSleek Humidity-Defying LI Creme
    Styling: SM Curl Milk, Argan Oil for sealing, sometimes GFPC Gel, some honey for hold, TIGI Control Freak Serum!!
  • oh.hi.its.stephoh.hi.its.steph Posts: 640Registered Users
    Oh! Another thing, try a nice, light leave-in conditioner. In terms of conditioners actually labelled "leave-in," I really like the Giovanni Direct Leave-In. You can get it at Target, and for me it works wonders, it's nice and light and keeps me as frizz-free as possible, lol :)

    But you can also use your own conditioner as a leave-in. I personally really like using the Yes to Carrots Pampering Conditioner (can be found at Giant Eagle Market District, and then I believe Target and Walgreens also carry it?). It was $8 for a really big container and I love it, I just smooth a little of it through damp hair and it's amazing. Also seems to work well in humidity for me.
    whurly girly (2C/3A).
    thick; medium/coarse; low porosity.
    hair that is drier than the sahara desert.

    LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
    CO: L'Oreal EverCreme Cleansing Conditioner
    RO: Renpure Keratin Conditioner. New HG!
    LI: L'Oreal EverSleek Humidity-Defying LI Creme
    Styling: SM Curl Milk, Argan Oil for sealing, sometimes GFPC Gel, some honey for hold, TIGI Control Freak Serum!!
  • swtndspcyswtndspcy Posts: 692Registered Users
    gianna910 wrote: »
    I dont know about dew points and humectants and stuffs. There's just too much going on. Can you explain it "for dummies" version? Please and thank you. Btw, it's about 35-40C here these days and the air isreallyreally dry and hot. And i havent washed my hair yet.

    Oh, well that could explain a lot. Basically, humectants are responsible for causing frizz in high or low dew points -- dew points lower than 20 or 30, and dew points higher than 60 or 70. They basically cause your hair to absorb/maintain a LOT of moisture in high humidity and it swells/frizzes a lot. Glycerin is probably the most common humectant, I see it in almost every single hair product, haha.

    You may want to try to look for hair products that have humectants either not in them at all, or extremely low on the list of products.

    Here are some helpful threads:
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/126265-how-does-your-routine-change-summer.html
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/126116-subsitutes-my-high-humectant-products-now-dews-rising.html
    Humidity, Humectants and Hair | NaturallyCurly.com (very technical description of humectants. It also includes a list of humectants towards the bottom -- look at those, and then see if your products contain those)
    They also draw moisture OUT of the hair in low dews, which if it is dry and hot where you are, could explain why it starts feeling rough when you go out. If you can't cut back on the humectants, sealing with an oil when your is wet should still help. That way, any humectants are on the outside of the oil seal, and can't draw the water out of your hair.
  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    so basically, less humectants, seal, less moisture.. and yea.. i don't really think i have alot of glycerin in my products maybe just 1-3 of my products. so maybe it's the honey then? :) okay. so no more honey?
  • swtndspcyswtndspcy Posts: 692Registered Users
    gianna910 wrote: »
    so basically, less humectants, seal, less moisture.. and yea.. i don't really think i have alot of glycerin in my products maybe just 1-3 of my products. so maybe it's the honey then? :) okay. so no more honey?
    You should keep the moisture up! Just try to cut back on the humectants. I would say definitely cut out the honey and try sealing and see how that goes.
  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    Okay! :) how about protein? :)


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • swtndspcyswtndspcy Posts: 692Registered Users
    I can't really say, my hair is fine-ish and porous and loves protein. If your hair is course, it may not like too much of it. If you feel you need it, I would start light and see how it goes! Like I said, if you use the gelatin PT, 5 minutes with no heat to start, and use a good rich condish after!! Maybe even a DT. You should be able to tell if you will need a DT or just a rich condish when you rinse. And you might consider adding more condish to the PT than the original recipe has.
  • oh.hi.its.stephoh.hi.its.steph Posts: 640Registered Users
    swtndspcy wrote: »
    I can't really say, my hair is fine-ish and porous and loves protein. If your hair is course, it may not like too much of it. If you feel you need it, I would start light and see how it goes! Like I said, if you use the gelatin PT, 5 minutes with no heat to start, and use a good rich condish after!! Maybe even a DT. You should be able to tell if you will need a DT or just a rich condish when you rinse. And you might consider adding more condish to the PT than the original recipe has.

    Totally agree with this. Coarse hair hates protein, but porous hair tends to need some of it :( Same dilemma for me! It's kind of a lot of guessing and trial and error before you really figure out what works. Just to be safe, DEFINITELY condition well after your PT just to be sure you don't overdo it.

    But the PT should help rebuild a little of the damage in your hair, which hopefully will be a start towards fixing some of the problems you're having :)

    So essentially, you need a PT, maybe a DT, a lot of moisture in your conditioner/stylers, and to avoid humectants. Whew! lol.
    whurly girly (2C/3A).
    thick; medium/coarse; low porosity.
    hair that is drier than the sahara desert.

    LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
    CO: L'Oreal EverCreme Cleansing Conditioner
    RO: Renpure Keratin Conditioner. New HG!
    LI: L'Oreal EverSleek Humidity-Defying LI Creme
    Styling: SM Curl Milk, Argan Oil for sealing, sometimes GFPC Gel, some honey for hold, TIGI Control Freak Serum!!
  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    Okayyy. So what i did today was i spritz and condished but i felt greasy so i dilluted half a tbs of sulfate shampoo ( i ran out of lowpoos) and scrubbed that on my roots then lightly coated my hair with my co wash, left it there tgen washed my body then rinsed a little bit out and then let it drip for a minute scrunched it with my shirt. Scrunched a bit of my cowash on the ends and one round of scrunching with my tshirt the the sealant oil thing, i used olive oil with a bit of lavander EO. Then my mousse gel combo. Plopped for 30 mins-1hr. Diffused till 80-90% dry. I'll prolly post pictures later. So far i'm liking the results. It looks a wee bit tighter than it was after the honey oil condish treatment. And BTW, the only product that had glycerin in it was my co wash. So yeah. :) thank you again for helping me.


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • oh.hi.its.stephoh.hi.its.steph Posts: 640Registered Users
    gianna910 wrote: »
    Okayyy. So what i did today was i spritz and condished but i felt greasy so i dilluted half a tbs of sulfate shampoo ( i ran out of lowpoos) and scrubbed that on my roots then lightly coated my hair with my co wash, left it there tgen washed my body then rinsed a little bit out and then let it drip for a minute scrunched it with my shirt. Scrunched a bit of my cowash on the ends and one round of scrunching with my tshirt the the sealant oil thing, i used olive oil with a bit of lavander EO. Then my mousse gel combo. Plopped for 30 mins-1hr. Diffused till 80-90% dry. I'll prolly post pictures later. So far i'm liking the results. It looks a wee bit tighter than it was after the honey oil condish treatment. And BTW, the only product that had glycerin in it was my co wash. So yeah. :) thank you again for helping me.

    Yay good that's awesome to hear! Totally post pictures :)
    whurly girly (2C/3A).
    thick; medium/coarse; low porosity.
    hair that is drier than the sahara desert.

    LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
    CO: L'Oreal EverCreme Cleansing Conditioner
    RO: Renpure Keratin Conditioner. New HG!
    LI: L'Oreal EverSleek Humidity-Defying LI Creme
    Styling: SM Curl Milk, Argan Oil for sealing, sometimes GFPC Gel, some honey for hold, TIGI Control Freak Serum!!
  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    Yay. The sealing thing worked i think. My hair didnt feel rough at all. Just the crunch that i got from the New gel i got. It felt a little bit greasy though. I may have put in too much. Then it went flat with minimal waves because the rain suddenly poured. But anyway. All in all it's better. Thank you again, ladies/girls. Hehhe. I'll post pictures later. ;)


    Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk
  • swtndspcyswtndspcy Posts: 692Registered Users
    Yay! I had been thinking about what on earth it could be for days before I even I posted! LOL
    It definitely may take some experimenting to see how much oil is just right for your hair, I have fine-ish thin hair so I use just a fingertip of it (palms barely oily). Since yours is courser and thicker, you'll need more than me of course, but I couldn't begin to say how much is too much for you.
  • oh.hi.its.stephoh.hi.its.steph Posts: 640Registered Users
    swtndspcy wrote: »
    Yay! I had been thinking about what on earth it could be for days before I even I posted! LOL
    It definitely may take some experimenting to see how much oil is just right for your hair, I have fine-ish thin hair so I use just a fingertip of it (palms barely oily). Since yours is courser and thicker, you'll need more than me of course, but I couldn't begin to say how much is too much for you.

    Lol, isn't it so frustrating sometimes? So much trial and error with things, you really have to be careful to find like, the exact perfect balance.
    whurly girly (2C/3A).
    thick; medium/coarse; low porosity.
    hair that is drier than the sahara desert.

    LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
    CO: L'Oreal EverCreme Cleansing Conditioner
    RO: Renpure Keratin Conditioner. New HG!
    LI: L'Oreal EverSleek Humidity-Defying LI Creme
    Styling: SM Curl Milk, Argan Oil for sealing, sometimes GFPC Gel, some honey for hold, TIGI Control Freak Serum!!
  • gianna910gianna910 Posts: 78Registered Users
    Here are the photos! :)
    sorry for the quality. It got ruined when i resized it.
    My hair here isn't as clumpy as it usually is and it is alot more frizzier than it actually is. Btw, sorry if i look horrible. I don't wear makeup at all :| :) Oh! and SORRy for the messy Vanity. That was my mom's :))

    Plopped for 30minutes. Plopping never really worked for me or at least i just didn't like the results it gives me :| lots of weird dents, kinks and bends on weird directions. HAHA :)
    IMG_4878Large.jpg
    IMG_4880Large.jpg
    IMG_4881Large.jpg
    IMG_4885Large.jpg

    I definitely didn't like the results of this. but i had to diffuse.
    IMG_4887Large.jpg
    IMG_4897Large.jpg

    I accept insults and everything because i know my hair is in really bad shape ESPECIALLY right now :| :)