Shea Moisture products bad for my hair?!!

bobo77bobo77 Posts: 105Registered Users
:confused: Hey ladies. I have a small dilemma that maybe some of you can offer some opinions on. As some of you may already know, I went out and bought the Shea Moisture- Hiar mask and the curl enhancing smoothie. I used the smoothie yesterday and i was happy with the moisture that it gave and it popped my curls and everything. I was pretty satisfied with it. Later in the day i looked at my hair and it looked pretty dry so i just dampened it with my water mixture that I use. I'm not used to my hair being dry and products drying out but it was like o.k. whatever now i know that i will have to remoisten throughout the day if I use that. Anyways in the evening i was curious about the hair mask so i smoothed some of that over my hair. Immediately i noticed how i did not like that in my hiar. It did notthing for it but make it look greasy but felt stringy and such. I then tried to see if it would work better as a DC. I applied more and washed it out with some conditioner (Jasons, which i never use because it does notthign for my hair). When I washed it out my hair jsut felt different. I think the best description would be stringy. I saw none of my little coils and it just felt stripped and stringy. I dont know what is in this product to make it react like that but i'm not sure if I should try it some other kind of way now or if I should just take the obvious hint and leave it alone. Are there any ingrediants in this product line that are not in the other products that work great for my hair? Oyin whipped pudding, Ohm sweet..., darcys madagascar,,, curls nurture cream,etc.....

any help much appreciated ladies. TIA.:confused:
Lovin my coils and my straight PJ'ism
Been natural for about 3 years but Bc'd July 2010
FAVORITE PRODUCTS:
Oyin hair dew,CJSL, AOMM,OSHP
Giovanni smooth as silk conditioner
Bed Head moisture maniac
Jojoba oil,Amla oil,AVPWHG,
Ojon restorative hair treatment
Mozeke CHB, Fleurzty CNC
CurlyKinks Coil Jam, Satin Roots
Nubian Heritage Mango butter
Ok ok ok........I'll stop for now.
http://aunaturalbounette.wordpress.com/
«1

Comments

  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Posts: 6,446Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Why don't you compare the products? There is nothing "bad" in the Shea Moisture line (ie, mineral oil, petroleum, cones), but it may not agree with your hair. I am lackluster about the Masque (as a mask, it's way better as a LI for me but not a repurchase) and with the Smoothie I combo it with another moisturizing leave-in under a gel (not a repurchase either).
    BC'ed: 26 Dec 09
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  • JessicazFroJessicazFro Posts: 1,446Registered Users
    Hard to say. Its not just the ingredients but the formulation. The smoothie won't be a rebuy because its heavy and leaves greasy residue. The masque I use as a styler. It works better for me if I use it over a basic, non-oily leave in (gvp balm, suave naturals). I use it for twists never on loose hair and I use a small dab. Honestly, for me it works more like a sealant. And everybody's hair is different so your hair just might not like them just like my hair is not fond of the whipped pudding :-)

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  • LadyV69LadyV69 Posts: 3,397Registered Users
    Those products aren't "bad" per se, but they just may not agree with your hair. One of the main ingredients is shea butter and it works well with my hair. The smoothie leaves my hair well moisturized and my curls do pop with it. As far as the masque (mask?), it did nothing for me as a DC, but it works well as a leave in or a styler for my hair.
    Fine haired, low density, highly porous curly kinky lady
    Last relaxer: Not sure. 3/08 or 4/08
    BC'd: 9/18/09
    Co-wash: Suave Naturals, HEHH, Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle, CJ Daily Fix
    Leave-In: KCKT, Giovanni Direct Leave-In, CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Stylers: ORS Twist and Loc Gel, KCCC, Ecostyler, SheaMoisture Deep Treatment Masque
    Deep Conditioner: DevaCurl Heaven In Hair, CJ Deep Fix

    http://confessionsofladyv69.wordpress.com/
  • KinkyBootsKinkyBoots Posts: 110Registered Users
    Why don't you compare the products? There is nothing "bad" in the Shea Moisture line (ie, mineral oil, petroleum, cones), but it may not agree with your hair. I am lackluster about the Masque (as a mask, it's way better as a LI for me but not a repurchase) and with the Smoothie I combo it with another moisturizing leave-in under a gel (not a repurchase either).
    That's how I used it. I really shouldn't have to, either, so I'll probably not repurchase and try Curl Junkie in the future.
    Last Relaxer: December 2010
    Big Chop: February 2011


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  • KinkyBootsKinkyBoots Posts: 110Registered Users
    It's possible that your hair doesn't like shea butter. It happened to me. I used raw shea butter on my hair as a moisturizer, and it made my hair feel dry. The ingredients are bad, but they just may not agree with you - together.
    Last Relaxer: December 2010
    Big Chop: February 2011


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  • teachermrwteachermrw Posts: 269Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I agree with what others previously have posted.

    A tip: This is something I learned from The Mop Top Maven blog: Before using any new product (s), I clarify. That way, I know exactly how a given product should perform.

    BTW: Which product label? My hair has responded very well to the gold label products, but not so well to the orange/peach label products. Those contain coconut, which makes my hair hard, dry and crispy.
    Your hair is your most important accessory.
    ______________________________________
    The Big Chop performed on 1/15/2011!!!:love7:

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  • NaturalSassENaturalSassE Posts: 125Registered Users
    I was scared to buy the mask I do pretty gd with deep condish so I opted that product. As for the smoothie I use it as a moisturizer with Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla leave in condish my hair loves the combo...but alone the smoothie leaves moisture but no luster! Lol
    Just do a product swap some people love the masque.
    Taking the Napptural World By Storm
    Bc'd June 21, 2010
  • kinkycurlyDTkinkycurlyDT Posts: 380Registered Users
    i tried the deep treatment masque and wasnt very pleased with it, so i used it up and didnt repurchase. But recently i found the shea moisture purification masque, which has a black label and is apart of the african black soap line. I LOVED it!. Its smells like bublegum and i could tell the difference in my hair before and after i used it. The purification masque is for dry, itchy scalp. After i used the masque i did a twist out with the curl enhancing smoothie and my hair came out sooooo soft.
  • CharnaNJCharnaNJ Posts: 3Registered Users
    I love Shea Moisture. Use the smoothie as a daily conditioner! Use the mist product AFTER applying the curl milk. It's fabulous!!!
  • DimePiece17DimePiece17 Posts: 521Registered Users
    i tried the deep treatment masque and wasnt very pleased with it, so i used it up and didnt repurchase. But recently i found the shea moisture purification masque, which has a black label and is apart of the african black soap line. I LOVED it!. Its smells like bublegum and i could tell the difference in my hair before and after i used it. The purification masque is for dry, itchy scalp. After i used the masque i did a twist out with the curl enhancing smoothie and my hair came out sooooo soft.

    I can't find any info about this purification masque.
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  • greenandchicgreenandchic Posts: 2,584Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    My hair soaks up any and everything so the Smoothie works for me as long as I apply it in moderation. I still have to layer it with another light leave in under it.

    The masque is too thick and heavy to use alone. I actually mixed a little in my henna gloss last night and I'm also going to mix it with lighter conditioners. I'm on the fence if this is going to be a repurchase or not. $10 for a deep conditioner is the max I want to/can spend so I may buy it again just to use it as I have been doing...
    APL BSL MBL WL HL TBL | porous, fine/medium strands, medium density
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  • kinkycurlyDTkinkycurlyDT Posts: 380Registered Users
    I think the purification masque is fairly new because I hadn't seen it before either. I'd seen other items like the African black soap shampoo but not the masque. My walgreens had like 2 jars of it, & most target's don't even plan on carrying the african black soap line of Shea moisture.
  • KeenyliciousKeenylicious Posts: 2,320Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I hope this doesn't sound TOO rude, but how are we supposed to tell you what is making this product not work for you? Like... Why couldn't you just read the ingredients on the products that you have and figure it out got yourself?

    Sent from my LS670 using CurlTalk App
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  • 3c4d7zwhatevs3c4d7zwhatevs Posts: 1,589Registered Users
    I think the purification masque is fairly new because I hadn't seen it before either. I'd seen other items like the African black soap shampoo but not the masque. My walgreens had like 2 jars of it, & most target's don't even plan on carrying the african black soap line of Shea moisture.
    It is a new product and it is shady that no one is being clear when when or where it will be carried. It is not at Target and even the Walgreens around town don't know what to do with it. I was lucky to get the manager of cosmetics at the Walgreens I called because she held and sold the products to me. I got the Black Soap Purification Masque and the Yucca and Baobab Anti-Breakage Masque. The store received the products but they were not on the list of products they would be carrying regularly so she was getting ready to send them back when I called.

    WHAT'S THIS ABOUT TARGET NOT PLANNING TO CONTINUE CARRYING THE BLACK SOAP LINE?!?
    4a/3c curls
    Fine strands, not as densely-placed as I would like
    Ayurvedic herbs are the TRUTH
    Team Wash and Go!
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  • kinkycurlyDTkinkycurlyDT Posts: 380Registered Users
    I lady at the target near me said that they will only carry the coconut and hibiscus line (pink label) & the saw butter line (gold label) at target. But that could just be that target in my area.
  • 3c4d7zwhatevs3c4d7zwhatevs Posts: 1,589Registered Users
    I lady at the target near me said that they will only carry the coconut and hibiscus line (pink label) & the saw butter line (gold label) at target. But that could just be that target in my area.
    Man, I hope not. I really like the black soap line and you can't get it anywhere else. The Yucca and Aloe condish is a great leave-in. I need to call around. I just don't get why they would start to carry the stylers (that's essentially all the coconut and hibiscus line is) and only the raw shea products. The treatments in the others are so much more important.
    4a/3c curls
    Fine strands, not as densely-placed as I would like
    Ayurvedic herbs are the TRUTH
    Team Wash and Go!
    iHerb code:UYA010 - get 5% off your first purchase
  • kinkycurlyDTkinkycurlyDT Posts: 380Registered Users
    Yes I really like the African black soap line of Shea moisture. They need to carry more of that line at target and at walgreens!
  • kinkycurlyDTkinkycurlyDT Posts: 380Registered Users
    a6898ceb-cfa2-6ef1.jpg
    a6898ceb-cfd3-2453.jpg
    These are my purchases! I went back tonight to buy some more before the sale was over. I decided to get the shampoo along with the purification masque to try out, seeing as how I have tried just about everything else from the Shea moisture line!
  • FronomenalFronomenal Posts: 712Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I hope this doesn't sound TOO rude, but how are we supposed to tell you what is making this product not work for you?
    +1

  • JessicazFroJessicazFro Posts: 1,446Registered Users
    I hope this doesn't sound TOO rude, but how are we supposed to tell you what is making this product not work for you? Like... Why couldn't you just read the ingredients on the products that you have and figure it out got yourself?

    Sent from my LS670 using CurlTalk App

    Lol. +2 I was thinking the same thing but tried to be nice



    Sent from my SPH-M920 using CurlTalk App
    tex-laxed(pfffttt) :dontknow:
    Thick/coarse/low porosity/low elasticity
    4a/b cottony/spongy

    At war with my indestructible, armadillo hair...MY WILL BE DONE!

    imager.php?id=2689460&t=o GIFSoup
    :tongue:
  • empressriempressri Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    I hope this doesn't sound TOO rude, but how are we supposed to tell you what is making this product not work for you? Like... Why couldn't you just read the ingredients on the products that you have and figure it out got yourself?

    Sent from my LS670 using CurlTalk App

    JESUS KEEP MY NEAR THE CROSS!!!

    Lord take the wheel, lift me up and hold my mule.

    im dead goodnight!!!
    Lady Hasytal in the Land of Product in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
    "Trust is knowing your SO would do the right thing in the face of strange vagina." Nej
    [/B]
  • khallidakhallida Posts: 4Registered Users
    Along with the smoothie, try their hair milk. The smoothid is the curling agent. Needs to bring followed with moistutizer (this works 4 me, thick 3c)

    curlyK
  • JessicazFroJessicazFro Posts: 1,446Registered Users
    empressri wrote: »
    I hope this doesn't sound TOO rude, but how are we supposed to tell you what is making this product not work for you? Like... Why couldn't you just read the ingredients on the products that you have and figure it out got yourself?

    Sent from my LS670 using CurlTalk App

    JESUS KEEP MY NEAR THE CROSS!!!

    Lord take the wheel, lift me up and hold my mule.

    im dead goodnight!!!
    Hold your mule? Lmao!


    Sent from my SPH-M920 using CurlTalk App
    tex-laxed(pfffttt) :dontknow:
    Thick/coarse/low porosity/low elasticity
    4a/b cottony/spongy

    At war with my indestructible, armadillo hair...MY WILL BE DONE!

    imager.php?id=2689460&t=o GIFSoup
    :tongue:
  • bobo77bobo77 Posts: 105Registered Users
    I hope this doesn't sound TOO rude, but how are we supposed to tell you what is making this product not work for you? Like... Why couldn't you just read the ingredients on the products that you have and figure it out got yourself?

    Sent from my LS670 using CurlTalk App


    WOW! it IS rude, so maybe just keep your small minded thoughts to yourself next time.
    It is obviously not an obligation to respond to any post. You offered nothing but snottiness. NOT NEEDED in any way shape or form. Do you have any idea how many different ingredients are in all these different products? I was maybe thinking that someone else had not gotten along good with these products also and had a USEFUL opinion, as many have here. Thanks ladies. I'm just trying to get over the fact that you wasted yoru time and so many others just to post some rude comment. You obviously had nothing to offer.
    Lovin my coils and my straight PJ'ism
    Been natural for about 3 years but Bc'd July 2010
    FAVORITE PRODUCTS:
    Oyin hair dew,CJSL, AOMM,OSHP
    Giovanni smooth as silk conditioner
    Bed Head moisture maniac
    Jojoba oil,Amla oil,AVPWHG,
    Ojon restorative hair treatment
    Mozeke CHB, Fleurzty CNC
    CurlyKinks Coil Jam, Satin Roots
    Nubian Heritage Mango butter
    Ok ok ok........I'll stop for now.
    http://aunaturalbounette.wordpress.com/
  • bjanellebjanelle Posts: 9Registered Users
    bobo77 wrote: »
    I hope this doesn't sound TOO rude, but how are we supposed to tell you what is making this product not work for you? Like... Why couldn't you just read the ingredients on the products that you have and figure it out got yourself?

    Sent from my LS670 using CurlTalk App


    WOW! it IS rude, so maybe just keep your small minded thoughts to yourself next time.
    It is obviously not an obligation to respond to any post. You offered nothing but snottiness. NOT NEEDED in any way shape or form. Do you have any idea how many different ingredients are in all these different products? I was maybe thinking that someone else had not gotten along good with these products also and had a USEFUL opinion, as many have here. Thanks ladies. I'm just trying to get over the fact that you wasted yoru time and so many others just to post some rude comment. You obviously had nothing to offer.

    I will be trying it for the first time so ill let u know have u tried other products such as miss jessies or kinky curly they have good stuff u just have to experiment until u find something that works for u

    Sent from my PC36100 using CurlTalk App
  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Posts: 6,446Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    bobo77 wrote: »
    I hope this doesn't sound TOO rude, but how are we supposed to tell you what is making this product not work for you? Like... Why couldn't you just read the ingredients on the products that you have and figure it out got yourself?

    Sent from my LS670 using CurlTalk App


    WOW! it IS rude, so maybe just keep your small minded thoughts to yourself next time.
    It is obviously not an obligation to respond to any post. You offered nothing but snottiness. NOT NEEDED in any way shape or form. Do you have any idea how many different ingredients are in all these different products? I was maybe thinking that someone else had not gotten along good with these products also and had a USEFUL opinion, as many have here. Thanks ladies. I'm just trying to get over the fact that you wasted yoru time and so many others just to post some rude comment. You obviously had nothing to offer.

    Hold on. Let me step in for a minute here. I thought the same thing that she did when I saw your post, but I knew that you would take it well, like you obviously did, so I attempted to be nice. But think about it...you came on here and asked people to compare the ingredients in Shea Moisture products to a list of products you love, and did not put down ANY of the ingredients. Even if people own these products, I'm pretty sure we didn't memorize the ingredients, so it is always IMPERATIVE to list these out, so people can look at the list and see if we can find any comparisons. No one should be Googling the ingredients or going into their bathroom checking out their labels FOR YOU. Seriously, wheredeydothatat?

    Furthermore, just because people don't like the products doesn't mean that they dislike it for the same reason as you. You told us NOTHING about the properties of your hair in your OP, so how are we supposed to make any kind of educated guess about why you didn't like something? Shouldn't you know your hair better than we do?

    Yes, I understand that keeny could have been "nicer" in her response, but this is getting ridiculous. People on this site come in here and wail for help and expect people to figure stuff out for them. Come on son, be more autonomous, or at least give us something to work with. You should have at the VERY LEAST listed out the ingredients to all the products in question and described your hair (porosity, texture, etc).

    Also, calling her snotty and small minded is taking it a little far...you wouldn't like it if I called you self entitled and lazy now would you? Think about that.
    BC'ed: 26 Dec 09
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  • bobo77bobo77 Posts: 105Registered Users
    I will be trying it for the first time so ill let u know have u tried other products such as miss jessies or kinky curly they have good stuff u just have to experiment until u find something that works for u

    Sent from my PC36100 using CurlTalk App[/QUOTE]


    Yeah, definately let me know. I have tried many other products. The only other one that did not work for me was the CJ HBHB. That did nothing for my hair. But i guess the good thing is that it did nothing BAD for my hair. This SM made my hiar feel bad. So I was a little confused by that. I just got my CJ CCCC and I tried it and I love it . It is like the ultimate curl popper for me.lol That and Ohm sweet hair pudding are really good for me. Other puddings and such moisturize really well for me.

    anyways, let us know how it does for your hair.
    Lovin my coils and my straight PJ'ism
    Been natural for about 3 years but Bc'd July 2010
    FAVORITE PRODUCTS:
    Oyin hair dew,CJSL, AOMM,OSHP
    Giovanni smooth as silk conditioner
    Bed Head moisture maniac
    Jojoba oil,Amla oil,AVPWHG,
    Ojon restorative hair treatment
    Mozeke CHB, Fleurzty CNC
    CurlyKinks Coil Jam, Satin Roots
    Nubian Heritage Mango butter
    Ok ok ok........I'll stop for now.
    http://aunaturalbounette.wordpress.com/
  • bobo77bobo77 Posts: 105Registered Users
    bobo77 wrote: »
    I hope this doesn't sound TOO rude, but how are we supposed to tell you what is making this product not work for you? Like... Why couldn't you just read the ingredients on the products that you have and figure it out got yourself?

    Sent from my LS670 using CurlTalk App


    WOW! it IS rude, so maybe just keep your small minded thoughts to yourself next time.
    It is obviously not an obligation to respond to any post. You offered nothing but snottiness. NOT NEEDED in any way shape or form. Do you have any idea how many different ingredients are in all these different products? I was maybe thinking that someone else had not gotten along good with these products also and had a USEFUL opinion, as many have here. Thanks ladies. I'm just trying to get over the fact that you wasted yoru time and so many others just to post some rude comment. You obviously had nothing to offer.

    Hold on. Let me step in for a minute here. I thought the same thing that she did when I saw your post, but I knew that you would take it well, like you obviously did, so I attempted to be nice. But think about it...you came on here and asked people to compare the ingredients in Shea Moisture products to a list of products you love, and did not put down ANY of the ingredients. Even if people own these products, I'm pretty sure we didn't memorize the ingredients, so it is always IMPERATIVE to list these out, so people can look at the list and see if we can find any comparisons. No one should be Googling the ingredients or going into their bathroom checking out their labels FOR YOU. Seriously, wheredeydothatat?

    Furthermore, just because people don't like the products doesn't mean that they dislike it for the same reason as you. You told us NOTHING about the properties of your hair in your OP, so how are we supposed to make any kind of educated guess about why you didn't like something? Shouldn't you know your hair better than we do?

    Yes, I understand that keeny could have been "nicer" in her response, but this is getting ridiculous. People on this site come in here and wail for help and expect people to figure stuff out for them. Come on son, be more autonomous, or at least give us something to work with. You should have at the VERY LEAST listed out the ingredients to all the products in question and described your hair (porosity, texture, etc).



    To be honest with you I was not expecting anyone to do google searches and do tons of research to answer my question. Just a simple,,, "yeah that doesn't work for me either, try this, or try that. type of thing was what I was looking for. In my mind I wouldn't have truly compared ingredients in all these products beause so many products have smilar products but they products still differ according to how much or how they formulate. I am not a mixologist so unless a specific ingredient stuck out that was not in any others I would not really know where to go with all of that.

    Anyhow, I do appreciate the input that was given. I think I will try layering it will other oils or something I will figure something out, or it will just have to be lonely in the back of the closet.lol
    Lovin my coils and my straight PJ'ism
    Been natural for about 3 years but Bc'd July 2010
    FAVORITE PRODUCTS:
    Oyin hair dew,CJSL, AOMM,OSHP
    Giovanni smooth as silk conditioner
    Bed Head moisture maniac
    Jojoba oil,Amla oil,AVPWHG,
    Ojon restorative hair treatment
    Mozeke CHB, Fleurzty CNC
    CurlyKinks Coil Jam, Satin Roots
    Nubian Heritage Mango butter
    Ok ok ok........I'll stop for now.
    http://aunaturalbounette.wordpress.com/
  • 3c4d7zwhatevs3c4d7zwhatevs Posts: 1,589Registered Users
    bobo77 wrote: »
    bobo77 wrote: »


    WOW! it IS rude, so maybe just keep your small minded thoughts to yourself next time.
    It is obviously not an obligation to respond to any post. You offered nothing but snottiness. NOT NEEDED in any way shape or form. Do you have any idea how many different ingredients are in all these different products? I was maybe thinking that someone else had not gotten along good with these products also and had a USEFUL opinion, as many have here. Thanks ladies. I'm just trying to get over the fact that you wasted yoru time and so many others just to post some rude comment. You obviously had nothing to offer.

    Hold on. Let me step in for a minute here. I thought the same thing that she did when I saw your post, but I knew that you would take it well, like you obviously did, so I attempted to be nice. But think about it...you came on here and asked people to compare the ingredients in Shea Moisture products to a list of products you love, and did not put down ANY of the ingredients. Even if people own these products, I'm pretty sure we didn't memorize the ingredients, so it is always IMPERATIVE to list these out, so people can look at the list and see if we can find any comparisons. No one should be Googling the ingredients or going into their bathroom checking out their labels FOR YOU. Seriously, wheredeydothatat?

    Furthermore, just because people don't like the products doesn't mean that they dislike it for the same reason as you. You told us NOTHING about the properties of your hair in your OP, so how are we supposed to make any kind of educated guess about why you didn't like something? Shouldn't you know your hair better than we do?

    Yes, I understand that keeny could have been "nicer" in her response, but this is getting ridiculous. People on this site come in here and wail for help and expect people to figure stuff out for them. Come on son, be more autonomous, or at least give us something to work with. You should have at the VERY LEAST listed out the ingredients to all the products in question and described your hair (porosity, texture, etc).



    To be honest with you I was not expecting anyone to do google searches and do tons of research to answer my question. Just a simple,,, "yeah that doesn't work for me either, try this, or try that. type of thing was what I was looking for. In my mind I wouldn't have truly compared ingredients in all these products beause so many products have smilar products but they products still differ according to how much or how they formulate. I am not a mixologist so unless a specific ingredient stuck out that was not in any others I would not really know where to go with all of that.

    Anyhow, I do appreciate the input that was given. I think I will try layering it will other oils or something I will figure something out, or it will just have to be lonely in the back of the closet.lol
    You know, Keeny was just saying what a lot of folk were thinking. How did you expect to get help when your OP said you put some in your dry hair and it didn't do what you wanted it to? The products are meant to be used on damp hair; your post is not clear on that. Did you have other products in your hair? You don't state. What exactly did you expect to happen? Are there other factors in your life that could be contributing to dryness? None of these things could anyone tell from your original post, so no response could be truly helpful short of tossing out ideas for you to try, whichm if you took some responsibility and self-direction, you could have done for yourself. We are all in your boat. A lot of trying new products IS trial and error. If one wants to avoid unexpected consequences then one should not experiment with new products.
    4a/3c curls
    Fine strands, not as densely-placed as I would like
    Ayurvedic herbs are the TRUTH
    Team Wash and Go!
    iHerb code:UYA010 - get 5% off your first purchase
  • KeenyliciousKeenylicious Posts: 2,320Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    well... i guess i don't even have to respond. elle and sagehen got me lol.
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