Just read this article in Marie Claire...

CanItBeChristineCanItBeChristine Posts: 6,343Registered Users
Since most of my friends are in the New York City creative world, I don't feel like many see marriage as a goal. However, I see it in other places...

--My sister, whose lifetime goal was to get married and who always said if she wasn't married by 30, she'd marry some random guy off the street

--One of my best friends, who belongs to an online community of women "waiting to get engaged" because they feel like they're "in limbo"

--My aunt, who cropped me out of a bunch of group photos of all the girls at family weddings when she made a wedding collage because I'm the only one who wasn't married

--A very spoiled intern we had who came right out and asked me if I felt like an old maid.


My friend in the second point is engaged now, and was telling me recently that a girl from her office isn't very nice to her, and she knows WHY...because they started dating their boyfriends at the same time and my friend is engaged and this girl isn't.

(We were discussing this over dinner. It was so hard not to physically roll my eyes at that one.)

However, I read this article yesterday:


Losing Female Friends Because of Engagement - Keeping Single Friends When You're Engaged - Marie Claire


And it made me wonder if my friend is on to something? Do some women really feel all this crazy jealousy when their friends get engaged?

Unless somebody is engaged to the one particular guy I'd like to marry, I'm not really feeling it.
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  • theliothelio Posts: 5,374Registered Users
    Since most of my friends are in the New York City creative world, I don't feel like many see marriage as a goal. However, I see it in other places...

    --My sister, whose lifetime goal was to get married and who always said if she wasn't married by 30, she'd marry some random guy off the street

    --One of my best friends, who belongs to an online community of women "waiting to get engaged" because they feel like they're "in limbo"

    --My aunt, who cropped me out of a bunch of group photos of all the girls at family weddings when she made a wedding collage because I'm the only one who wasn't married

    --A very spoiled intern we had who came right out and asked me if I felt like an old maid.


    My friend in the second point is engaged now, and was telling me recently that a girl from her office isn't very nice to her, and she knows WHY...because they started dating their boyfriends at the same time and my friend is engaged and this girl isn't.

    (We were discussing this over dinner. It was so hard not to physically roll my eyes at that one.)

    However, I read this article yesterday:


    Losing Female Friends Because of Engagement - Keeping Single Friends When You're Engaged - Marie Claire


    And it made me wonder if my friend is on to something? Do some women really feel all this crazy jealousy when their friends get engaged?

    Unless somebody is engaged to the one particular guy I'd like to marry, I'm not really feeling it.

    AN OLD MAID?!?!?!?!:eek:
  • CanItBeChristineCanItBeChristine Posts: 6,343Registered Users
    YES!

    She literally gasped when she found-out how old I was and asked me why I never talked about getting married...

    Me: Because I'm not engaged?
  • theliothelio Posts: 5,374Registered Users
    That's nuts!

    My aunt asked me when i was getting married and told me to get on that. She's on marriage #4!
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I never understood the fascination with weddings and marriage.
  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Honestly, for me personally it's not really that I'm jealous/envious that a friend (or in my instance as well, my younger sister) is engaged... that's not really what bothers me. It's the automatic questions that get turned on me that get my dander up, so to speak.

    "Oh, when's your turn?" or "Oh, haven't found a keeper yet?" or the best "You know, if you lost a little weight, I bet you'd be married within a year" (yeah, wtf?)

    On the other end of the spectrum, you have the people who are SO INSANELY AWARE of the fact that you're single, they'll tiptoe around their own engagement. I've had some friends express concern that I might be upset, only to be relieved when i tell them it's fine. But honestly, the fact that they think I'd be that selfish and ridiculous kind of hurts, and that tends to taint the friendship a little too.

    I dunno... it's not an easy thing, for sure. Sometimes for the jealousy reasons you listed, sometimes for entirely different ones...
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  • BefrizzledBefrizzled Posts: 3,854Registered Users
    That doesn't really surprise me. There are plenty of women who pull away from their friends when they get into a relationship, and this is just a twist on that. As you've seen, engagement and marriage can really bring out the crazy in people.

    Also, I hear you on the old-maid thing. I'm 24, and most people from my hometown are downright appalled that I'm not married, and they aren't afraid to tell me. The longer I wait, the harder it will be to find someone. Why aren't I married yet? What am I waiting for? They don't know that I've been in a relationship for almost six years, either; my personal life is absolutely none of their business. Plus, the questions won't stop. Once I get engaged, they'll want to know when I'm getting married. Then when I'm having kids. Then when I'm having more kids. Or why I'm not having more kids. Ugh.

    It's really started to come up among people who know I'm with SO. Didn't I get a ring for Christmas? NO?!?! Well, why hasn't he popped the question yet if you moved to be with him? Are you at least talking about it? Have you set a date?

    /rant

    Sorry. This topic has *really* been bugging me lately.
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  • CanItBeChristineCanItBeChristine Posts: 6,343Registered Users
    MimsTX wrote: »
    "Oh, when's your turn?" or "Oh, haven't found a keeper yet?" or the best "You know, if you lost a little weight, I bet you'd be married within a year" (yeah, wtf?)

    After my sister got engaged, a relative (who was in his 30's and not of another generation) said to my mom, "One down, one to go!" My mom later yelled at me for the dirty look I gave him. (Because, you know. I'm a terrible burden to my family and to society until I'm married!)
  • CanItBeChristineCanItBeChristine Posts: 6,343Registered Users
    Also, my mom and I had dinner with a woman my mom was close friends with when I was little. I went to elementary school with her daughter, and we were talking about "whatever happen to's" all the kids we went to school with.

    All this woman was capable of talking about/asking about was if people were married. "Is she married?" "She got married."

    It's like that was the only thing anybody could ever possibly accomplish.

    I mentioned how I caught-up with my best friend who had moved far away when we were in the 3rd grade. She was randomly in the city last year and we met-up.

    My mom's friend said, "I don't remember that girl. Is she married now?"

    It was really comical. She didn't even KNOW this girl and had to ask if she was married?
  • LadyV69LadyV69 Posts: 3,397Registered Users
    This does not surprise me at all. Generally, we're made to feel worthless if we don't have a mate. So whenever a friend or family member gets engaged, it's not unusual that it would change your relationship with that person, often with the both of you drifting off.

    Growing up, I was fairly close with a particular cousin, who is only three weeks older than me. Well, 15 or 16 years ago, she got married. Our relationship has never been the same since then because we drifted apart. It may have happened anyway to some extent because by the time we became adults, we started developing different interests, but (and this is a pet peeve of mine, so forgive me if I offend anybody) often when people get married, they tend to shut out the rest of the universe and start focusing on just each other. I understand that you do have to invest time in the relationship, but other people deserve some of your time as well.
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  • NejNej Posts: 2,444Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I'm slowly losing all my friends to marriage/babies. But it's not from jealously.

    Most of them tend to move out of the city and 'settle' I don't drive so unless they meet me in the middle (which they won't) we lose touch.

    Out interests also change. I still get prettied up and go to the bar on weekends while my married friends look down on that and simply say they're not interested in doing that anymore ... so we plan coffee or movie dates ... which usually get cancelled the day of due to things that come up. Eventually I just stop putting in effort.

    The attitude towards friendships changes IMO ... why bother with friends when you have your best friend and partner rolled into one!

    I barely see my own roomie anymore since she started getting serious with her guy. My silly and trivial single problems seem silly to her now that she's in a relationship. Instead of being a good friend I get judgemental remarks and rolled eyes ... Of course something clearly must be wrong with me since I have no one special to back everything I do up.

    I think it CAN be jealousy but I think more often than not it has to do with people changing their attitudes about things (which is sadly a fact of life) and drifting apart.

    The few that I am friends with who are married are ones who are open and honest about their changes and dont get up on their high horse. They tease me, I tease them and there's no skirting around the issues. They also don't turn into big lame-o's just cause they're married ;)
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  • CanItBeChristineCanItBeChristine Posts: 6,343Registered Users
    When my sister got engaged, I had just started a new job and was telling my new work friend (who would become the friend I am talking about) that my sister called me at 7 AM to tell me she had gotten engaged at sunrise.

    My friend said, "I can't believe she would call you that early with news that is just going to make you jealous."

    I think what bothers me the most is people assuming I'm going to be jealous or feel inferior to somebody else just because she's married or engaged.

    And when it comes down to it, don't half of all marriages end in divorce? And apparently half of the ones that last aren't happy either. So, why does anybody obsess and make themselves feel bad?
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I don't know how many are happy, but I do know that half of all marriages do NOT end in divorce. That statistic was uttered long ago by a Math Idiot and has been repeated so many times that people now think it's true. Each year, about half as many divorces happen as marriages, but that doesn't mean half of ALL marriages end. The marriages from the previous years are still intact. The real divorce rate is somewhere around 20-ish%.

    I just don't see the descrimination against single folks that you are seeing. Maybe I'm jaded. Maybe I hang around with a bunch of jaded people. But my friends and relatives (of all ages) don't seem to regard marriage as the be-all-end-all thing that your friends and relatives do.
  • CheetaraCheetara Posts: 2,182Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I have definitely noticed that if your relationship doesn't follow the "normal" trajectory or time-line, people get pretty judgmental.

    If you don't follow the path - dating -> living together (opt.) -> engagement -> marriage -> kids - then people think you're weird or there is something wrong with you or your other.

    Also it seems the norm that when women get involved with someone seriously, they drop their friends. Or you'll invite them to do stuff and they automatically bring their bf/SO. I strive not to be that kind of girl because I know how annoying that is first hand.
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  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I was 36 when I got married. I got a lot of "when are you going to get married?" for years. I just blew it off...if I wasn't in a serious relationship, I didn't even give it any thought.

    Many of my friends who got married did drift apart from us singles, but not out of maliciousness. Life changes. I'm glad I waited until I was ready. Many of my same friends (not most, but many) are divorced now. I wasn't ready to "settle down" until maybe about 29 or 30 anyways...when that long-term relationship ended, well, my readiness ended. I wasn't looking to get married.

    It'll happen when it happens. Yes, there can be struggles with waiting. I had fertility issues. Although I'm pregnant now, I am not assuming there will be no problems. The great thing about waiting is I had A LOT of fun in my thirties. I mean A LOT. Being single, not having kids...I had soooo much freedom...but yet I was mature enough to do so with no bad consequences.

    My life happened on my own time-line...not society's. And like I said, fertility was a big problem because of that...but really...everything else...GREAT! I would recommend to play play play before settling down. I would recommend enjoying your freedom. Society already puts a lot of burden on women to serve others. Be "selfish" (I don't really think its selfish but many might) for a little longer, and don't listen to what others say.

    If they want to marry young, good for them.
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  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    I would recommend to play play play before settling down. I would recommend enjoying your freedom. Society already puts a lot of burden on women to serve others. Be "selfish" (I don't really think its selfish but many might) for a little longer, and don't listen to what others say.

    I agree. I love my bf but sometimes I miss being single. I'm not sure why people are in such a rush to be with someone, especially when you're just in your 20s! You've hardly had any time to yourself.
  • CanItBeChristineCanItBeChristine Posts: 6,343Registered Users
    I just don't see the descrimination against single folks that you are seeing. Maybe I'm jaded. Maybe I hang around with a bunch of jaded people. But my friends and relatives (of all ages) don't seem to regard marriage as the be-all-end-all thing that your friends and relatives do.

    But I don't see it that often, and it's not a lot of my friends and family...the only personal examples I had were my one friend, my sister and some random intern who was ten years younger than me.

    I thought the Marie Claire article sounded surprising because I haven't really witnessed single women being so horrible and jealous.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Cheetara wrote: »
    Also it seems the norm that when women get involved with someone seriously, they drop their friends.


    And sometimes their friends drop them.

    I don't think you can generalize. Women and men probably drop and pick up friends at equal rates.
  • CanItBeChristineCanItBeChristine Posts: 6,343Registered Users
    I also think a lot of these girls who get engaged and suddenly think everybody is jealous and hates them are projecting how THEY feel when people got engaged before then.

    The friend I have mentioned I love to death. I really do. But she recently told me that all the single girls in her office hate her now that she's engaged. (Her exact words.) I really don't think this is true.

    And I remember that when my sister got engaged, the first thing she said was that I must be jealous...so, because SHE gets jealous she assumes we all do, and when she got engaged she was ready for "payback" that everybody was going to be so jealous of her finally.
  • SunshineGrrlSunshineGrrl Posts: 3,823Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    MimsTX wrote: »
    "Oh, when's your turn?" or "Oh, haven't found a keeper yet?" or the best "You know, if you lost a little weight, I bet you'd be married within a year" (yeah, wtf?)

    After my sister got engaged, a relative (who was in his 30's and not of another generation) said to my mom, "One down, one to go!" My mom later yelled at me for the dirty look I gave him. (Because, you know. I'm a terrible burden to my family and to society until I'm married!)

    Ditto with Mims comments...I'm sick of hearing them. I did lose a lot of weight and wasn't married within a year, so they lied. Big time.

    And I also feel you, CIBC...In my state, you are a horrible freak of nature if you're not married by the time you're 25. I'm not kidding. And the same commenta were said over and over and over at my sister's wedding (who incidentally is 4 1/2 years younger than me). "So, when are you getting married?" "Are you dating anybody?" "Maybe (insert name here) can set you up with someone." "One down, one to go!" "So, you're the only one not married, huh? Why is that?"

    Could I please be made to feel any more like a complete loser? Oh, and don't you worry your pretty little heads. This was all family members. Charming, right? I finally started telling everybody that I wasn't ever going to get married.

    But the winning hand goes to my Grandmother. At the ripe old age of 19. Yes, you read that right...19...my Grandmother told me that it was time that I get married and fulfill my duty as a woman. Love it.

    But back on topic. I am still pretty close friends with a lot of my friends who have gotten married. We don't hang out like we used to, but we talk a lot and get together for birthdays and summer barbecues and stuff. There wasn't jealousy when they got engaged and they never assumed I was jealous. Life went on as normal.

  • nikskenikske Posts: 556Registered Users
    I'm not ever getting married. Simple. End of story. I'll happily play brides maid, and have several times, but marriage is not on my to-do list. I do not envy my friends who did get married (and found out that it's not some sort of fairytale).

    I think it's rather degrading, as if our only goal in life is to be someone's wife. No thank you!
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  • fraufrau Posts: 6,130Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    my daughter is all grown up now so there is no point in ever getting married. i'm not having nor raising anymore children.

    it would be nice to be in a loving relationship though.
  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users Curl Neophyte
    And of course this kind of pressure is never put on the man.
    I have a cuz, uncle, another cuz never married & no one ever gives them any flak.....they don't have kids either......smart, no?
  • afrosheenqueenafrosheenqueen Posts: 5,400Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    frau wrote: »

    it would be nice to be in a loving relationship though.

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  • subbrocksubbrock Posts: 8,212Registered Users

    My friend in the second point is engaged now, and was telling me recently that a girl from her office isn't very nice to her, and she knows WHY...because they started dating their boyfriends at the same time and my friend is engaged and this girl isn't.

    (We were discussing this over dinner. It was so hard not to physically roll my eyes at that one.)

    i'm going to be totally honest here and say this is the ONLY case where i would be remotely jealous. last year there was a time when something big was getting ready to happen with one of my SO's friends and his girlfriend. i think he said he wasn't going to tell me until he was 100% sure. i told him, if his friend asks the girlfriend to marry him i'm going to be inexplicably and irrationally pissed and i might punch him in the face. turns out SO's friend was actually going to dump the gf. when i really thought about it, i knew why i would be upset (it had everything to do with us, not the fact that someone was engaged and it wasn't me) but i knew it wouldn't make sense to the man.

    and i also know that a part of me will hurt when SO's friends get engaged/married, but once again it has nothing to do with them but everything to do with my loss and thinking "that should have been us".

    i had no clue that it was common practice for women to go bonkers because one of their friends got engaged. i'm excited for any one of my friends to meet someone decent and get engaged. i look forward to it!
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    No, but some of them still feel it internally. I've met men who wondered what was wrong with themselves that they aren't married. Its sad. I want equality of the sexes, but I want it to go the other direction. We don't need men or women feeling like they are losers because they are not married. Lets bring up people; not tear them down; and celebrate the differences in how we live our lives. If one is happy with their own life (whether married or not), then don't intrude on others. If one isn't happy with their own life, then do something to help oneself, not tear someone else down.

    And of course this kind of pressure is never put on the man.
    I have a cuz, uncle, another cuz never married & no one ever gives them any flak.....they don't have kids either......smart, no?
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  • kenzie!kenzie! Posts: 5,055Registered Users
    But the winning hand goes to my Grandmother. At the ripe old age of 19. Yes, you read that right...19...my Grandmother told me that it was time that I get married and fulfill my duty as a woman. Love it.

    I've only been 16 for 2 months and My mom is CONSTANTLY bugging me about having a boyfriend. She started dating my dad when she was a freshman in high school (and he was a freshman in college. Cradle robber!) and I think she thinks that I won't ever get married if I don't start dating now.

    My grandma is even worse. I'll get calls mid-week asking if I'm going out "with that cute boy that lives down the street" yet. No, grandma. He happens to be very, very gay. :roll:
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  • BefrizzledBefrizzled Posts: 3,854Registered Users
    And of course this kind of pressure is never put on the man.
    I have a cuz, uncle, another cuz never married & no one ever gives them any flak.....they don't have kids either......smart, no?

    In my old community, the guys are pressured, too. A mother was telling me she was constantly on her son when he was 22 because he hadn't found someone yet, and she was so relieved when he finally got engaged. The road from meeting to marriage is very short where I'm from, sometimes with only three dates.
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  • KookyCurlKookyCurl Posts: 1,980Registered Users
    I just don't get losing a good friend just because their relationship changes. Peripheral friends do drop off but not good ones. I've always been super excited for my friends to get engaged! I think forging a good relationship with them as a couple helps. I think the only twinge of jealousy I've felt is when my 20 year old niece got engaged/married earlier this year but it was momentary and I've been nothing but happy for her since. I certainly didn't lose touch with her.

    I think the drifting apart of friends as they marry and change priorities can be very normal. The competition aspect is just strange to me. That's not really true friendship.
  • MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    nikske wrote: »
    I'm not ever getting married. Simple. End of story. I'll happily play brides maid, and have several times, but marriage is not on my to-do list. I do not envy my friends who did get married (and found out that it's not some sort of fairytale).

    I think it's rather degrading, as if our only goal in life is to be someone's wife. No thank you!

    I agree that marriage isn't and shouldn't be anyone's only goal-- or even the most important one.

    I never thought I would get married either-- it was never one of my goals. I did because it felt right at the time. You're absolutely right, it's not a fairy tale, it's just like any other relationship on the planet, with it's ups and downs and flaws and moments of joy and annoyance. Nothing is perfect.

    I do think there can be some level of vilification of marriage, though, as though marriage is the problem in and of itself. A lot of people have this wildly unrealistic expectation of what marriage is. What will happen when you get married. So many people seem to be under the impression that their spouse will magically settle down or change in some way once they get married. That's just not what happens. But marriage itself isn't to blame for that. A society that pushes women to marry, that idealizes marriage and tells people what role they're supposed to play in marriage, rather than just be themselves. Suddenly you're supposed to be a "wife" and not yourself. Which is just insane.

    With reasonable and rational expectations of marriage, it's fun. Not for everyone, of course, and one way isn't better than the other, for sure. Different paths, valid choices in both.
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  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    No, but some of them still feel it internally. I've met men who wondered what was wrong with themselves that they aren't married. Its sad. I want equality of the sexes, but I want it to go the other direction. We don't need men or women feeling like they are losers because they are not married. Lets bring up people; not tear them down; and celebrate the differences in how we live our lives. If one is happy with their own life (whether married or not), then don't intrude on others. If one isn't happy with their own life, then do something to help oneself, not tear someone else down.

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