Which Side Do You Fall On?

SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
My roller derby league is starting a new team and we've all been brainstorming to come up with new names. One of the women on our league is pretty adamant that she doesn't want another "mean" team name, that she'd like something anime themed. It's going to a vote eventually. Last week someone suggested the Lumberjackies. We all thought it was kind of cute, then someone else mentioned Monty Python and people started singing the lumber jack song. A little bit later the woman who want the anime-themed name asked us to drop that name. She said that she's trangender and offended by the names. She said this specifically:
Monty Python is really funny. The Lumber Jack Song is funny. But the underlying concept that you can always make fun of trans folks because, well that’s just funny to start with, that really hurts. I remember watching an interview with one of the Python folks long after their series had finished; it was Eric Idle or John Cleese, and he commented that the one aspect of their comedy that they regretted now was how homophobic it was in places and that they had just been oblivious to that at the time they were making it. When I first saw the Lumber Jack skit when I was in high school, sometime around 1976 or 77, it was funny. And it hurt, It still does.

So, I’d appreciate if we could quietly let this one drop.

That was enough for me. I mean, if someone wanted a team name called the Sambos, even if they (somehow) didn't mean it offensively, I'd ask them to drop it and asked that it be respected.

That said, LOTS of people love the name Lumberjackies and the ones who proposed it are going forward pushing for the name. I guess they feel like they have nothing to lose since it's ultimately going for a vote. (and I secretly really love the name Lumberjackies, too but because she asked me to, I'm not going to vote for it)

Where do you fall on this issue?
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Comments

  • The New BlackThe New Black Posts: 16,754Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    If people would be hurt by it, then don't do it (although I'm not familiar with the song. I hate Monty Python). Hopefully, it won't end up being your team name. It could end up alienating the fans too.
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  • CurlyminxCurlyminx Posts: 5,581Registered Users
    I'd vote for something else too. For the same reason.

    I was asked and her reason seems justified.

    Hopefully they will come up with another name equally good.
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  • kenzie!kenzie! Posts: 5,055Registered Users
    I would not vote for it if she felt offended by it.

    I think that the people who are still pushing for it are being rather rude. I also feel that it shows something about their character if they would continue to push a name despite her being offended/hurt by it.
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  • CurlyCanadianCurlyCanadian Posts: 10,904Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Connoisseur
    kenzie! wrote: »
    I think that the people who are still pushing for it are being rather rude. I also feel that it shows something about their character if they would continue to push a name despite her being offended/hurt by it.

    This was my first thought aswell and think I would be really put off being on a team with women that could treat a team member like this.
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  • mrspoppersmrspoppers Posts: 7,223Registered Users Curl Novice
    Curlyminx wrote: »
    I'd vote for something else too. For the same reason.

    I was asked and her reason seems justified.

    Hopefully they will come up with another name equally good.
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  • MoppyTMoppyT Posts: 998Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    If a team member is hurt by it, no way. That said, I also think an anime name would be kind of dumb for roller derby... is there a lot of overlap between those two fandoms? I know some of the Windy City Rollers, and I can't imagine them being into anime.

    I always thought RD teams should have some kind of tornado name (all the skating in circles), like Twister Sisters or something. Maybe that name already exists. Maybe I should just go back to doing my homework and get the hell off NC.

    Yes. I'll do that. Good talk.
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  • rouquinnerouquinne Posts: 13,737Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    if someone hadn't started singing that song and brought up the Monty Python association, would LumberJackies still be okay?

    because i grew up in a logging community and wouldn't have thought anything of it being more than a cute take on a long-male-dominated profession.

    how many people are going to make the negative association?
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  • SariaSaria Posts: 15,963Registered Users
    I agree with the majority. Since this is a member of your team, and she has said she is offended by it, it would be in the team's best interest to pick something else. And it is kind of spiteful for people to still want to put it up for a vote.
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  • CGNYCCGNYC Posts: 4,938Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I wouldn't want to choose a name that was hurtful to a member of the team. I do know some people who "should" be offended by that and would embrace it but I know not everyone has the same humor.

    At the same time I would secretly wonder if she was using an emotional reason to get her anime name passed. Who is going to argue with you on something like that? They'd look like an ass. And anime? Really? As someone already said, I know a few people who do roller derby and I don't see a lot of overlap with the anime-fandom. Aren't all the names mean? If this person is really offended and put off by mean names, maybe she has found the wrong hobby.
  • SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
    CGNYC wrote: »

    At the same time I would secretly wonder if she was using an emotional reason to get her anime name passed. Who is going to argue with you on something like that? They'd look like an ass. And anime? Really? As someone already said, I know a few people who do roller derby and I don't see a lot of overlap with the anime-fandom. Aren't all the names mean? If this person is really offended and put off by mean names, maybe she has found the wrong hobby.

    All of this is exactly what I've been thinking. Quite frankly, part of the reason I'm in roller derby is because I WANT permission to be mean. We can't be that mean and aggressive in our every day lives and roller derby is a great outlet for that. I kind of do think it's that she wants her name. Luckily it IS going to a vote. Some of my suggestions:

    Mayhem Matildas
    Typhoid Marys
    Bloody Marys
    Plutonium Bombshells
    Strychnine Sugars
    TWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gif

    Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



  • CurlyCanadianCurlyCanadian Posts: 10,904Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Connoisseur
    I like Bloody Marys :lol:
    I believe in manicures. I believe in overdressing. I believe in primping at leisure and wearing lipstick. I believe in pink. I believe that laughing is the best calorie burner. I believe in kissing, kissing a lot. I believe in being strong when everything seems to be going wrong. I believe that happy girls are the prettiest girls. I believe that tomorrow is another day and I believe in miracles.
    Audrey Hepburn
  • OBBOBB Posts: 4,174Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    if i get bumped on my right side i fall to the left and if i get bumped on my left side i would fall to the right...oh wait. i would suspect her motive but im always suspectative.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,060 Administrator
    rouquinne wrote: »
    if someone hadn't started singing that song and brought up the Monty Python association, would LumberJackies still be okay?

    because i grew up in a logging community and wouldn't have thought anything of it being more than a cute take on a long-male-dominated profession.

    how many people are going to make the negative association?

    Agree. I'm familiar with the Monty Python song, but it didn't enter my head as a reaction to the proposed name.

    Edited to add: and I even have a transgender friend, and it still didn't occur to me. Either I'm very dense, or it's not a likely association.
  • ninja dogninja dog Posts: 23,780Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Another vote for the Bloody Marys.
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    kenzie! wrote: »
    I would not vote for it if she felt offended by it.

    I think that the people who are still pushing for it are being rather rude. I also feel that it shows something about their character if they would continue to push a name despite her being offended/hurt by it.

    If she is legitimately hurt by this, the above, 100%.

    Since there's a question about her sincerity, I'm not as sure. Why does it have to be between Lumberjackies and an anime name? Why not some of your options? I think Lumberjackies should be ruled out, but her option probably should as well, since she has self-interest there. And really, while I am not into anime and know almost nothing about it, it seems it would make a lame name simply because of the fact it's a niche interest area which isn't widespread through unconnected populations. It's like if I were on a roller derby team and wanted to use a horse-specific term. People just wouldn't get it - and you want your name to make sense.

    (I also don't know the sketch, and would have just associated it with females in a male-dominated profession.)
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  • SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
    For those of you who don't know the lyrics, here they are:


    BARBER:
    I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.
    I sleep all night and I work all day.


    MOUNTIES:
    He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
    He sleeps all night and he works all day.

    BARBER:
    I cut down trees. I eat my lunch.
    I go to the lavatory.
    On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
    And have buttered scones for tea.

    MOUNTIES:
    He cuts down trees. He eats his lunch.
    He goes to the lavatory.
    On Wednesdays he goes shoppin'
    And has buttered scones for tea.
    He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
    He sleeps all night and he works all day.


    BARBER:
    I cut down trees. I skip and jump.
    I like to press wild flowers.
    I put on women's clothing
    And hang around in bars.

    MOUNTIES:
    He cuts down trees. He skips and jumps.
    He likes to press wild flowers.
    He puts on women's clothing
    And hangs around in bars?!
    He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
    He sleeps all night and he works all day.

    BARBER:
    I cut down trees. I wear high heels,
    Suspendies, and a bra.
    I wish I'd been a girlie,
    Just like my dear Papa.

    MOUNTIES:
    He cuts down trees. He wears high heels,
    Suspendies, and a bra?!
    [talking]
    What's this? Wants to be a girlie?! Oh, My!
    And I thought you were so rugged! Poofter!
    [singing]
    He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
    He sleeps all night and he works all day.
    He's a lumberjack, and he's okaaaaay.
    He sleeps all night and he works all day.
    TWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gif

    Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



  • MysticSpiralMysticSpiral Posts: 1,024Registered Users
    MoppyT wrote: »
    If a team member is hurt by it, no way. That said, I also think an anime name would be kind of dumb for roller derby... is there a lot of overlap between those two fandoms? I know some of the Windy City Rollers, and I can't imagine them being into anime.

    I always thought RD teams should have some kind of tornado name (all the skating in circles), like Twister Sisters or something. Maybe that name already exists. Maybe I should just go back to doing my homework and get the hell off NC.

    Yes. I'll do that. Good talk.
    Our team (indianapolis) has tornado names, because we're in the tornado alley/midwest.

    Our varsity is the Tornado Sirens, and our JV is The Warning Belles

    Skating in circles also apply to our rec league 'The Circle City Socialites' and our men's team 'The Race City Rebels' but that's because Indianapolis is known as 'The Circle City' and the home of the indy 500
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  • MysticSpiralMysticSpiral Posts: 1,024Registered Users
    Reading the lyrics I guess it could be offensive, but really it's still registering a BFD reaction from me, and really don't get the instant 'OMG LUMBERJACKIES LIKE THAT MONTY PYTHON SONG' connection.

    I think it's the perfect balance between 'cutesy' and 'mean'. But my second choice is definitely Typhoid Marys because of the X Men connection.

    Though don't mention it, because the character is offensive on many levels :occasion9:
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  • KikapooKikapoo Posts: 1,087Registered Users
    LumberJills!!!
  • wavyblondewavyblonde Posts: 1,637Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I'm not really seeing why it's offensive to transgendered folks, since it's just kind of a silly song playing against the lumberjack "tough guy" image, but I'd respect her wishes, especially since I like some of the other names suggested better than Lumberjackies.

    I do agree that an anime name makes ZERO sense for a derby team, and that if she wants non-violent connotations, she probably picked the wrong sport. The violent-sounding puns are part of what makes derby fun.
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  • wild_sasparillawild_sasparilla Posts: 4,306Registered Users
    I basically just agree with what everyone else has said - that your team should be sensitive in case she's genuinely offended by the name based on the random connection her teammates made to a Monty Python sketch, but no pity votes for her anime name - but I just had to pop in and say:

    I LOVE the Strychnine Sugars! If your team doesn't take the name, I have half a mind to snag it myself, no matter what rag-tag band of misfits I have to throw together to own it. :love10:
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