finger combing causes frizz:(

crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
guys, I am really desperate here. you see, if I don't at least fingercomb my hair at least once per day it gets so tangly I don't even wanna get there (and I tried to go 3-4 days without touching my hair so don't think I am taking some minor tangliness way too seriously here, I know what is tangled hair and mine's really tangled by the end of one no finger combing day).

BUT if I touch my hair it turns into a frizz ball and curls loose their definition dramatically (and I am talking about finger combing here!).

where do I go from here??

would be thankful for any kind of advice!

for reference: my hair length - APL when dry, hairstyle - layered, 3b, obviously
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Comments

  • aliquotaliquot Registered Users Posts: 227
    Do you finger comb dry or wet? You should only be detangling/combing your hair when wet with conditioner in it to help prevent breakage and help with detangling.

    Any way you touch your hair while dry will cause frizz and breaking up of curl clumps. There really is no way to avoid that.
    3a/b in Piscataway, NJ
    Fine, low porosity, loves protein!

    Cleansing - Burt's Bees or CJ
    RO - CJBSC
    LI - GDLI, CJCR
    Styling - Re:Coil and CJCQ
  • crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
    Thank you, Aliquot. Yes, I finger comb when dry because I don't use conditioner. I also thought about finger combing only before washing but since I don't wash my hair that often I can't wait that long - I need to detangle at least every night.
  • aliquotaliquot Registered Users Posts: 227
    You NEVER use conditioner??

    The only thing I can think of is to maybe water down some conditioner in a spray bottle and dampen your hair before your finger comb it. Otherwise, there really is not way to RE-clump your hair when dry after you've broken up all the curls.
    3a/b in Piscataway, NJ
    Fine, low porosity, loves protein!

    Cleansing - Burt's Bees or CJ
    RO - CJBSC
    LI - GDLI, CJCR
    Styling - Re:Coil and CJCQ
  • crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
    I used to use conditioner but now I don't, no. Well, actually there is another (time consuming) way - to simply sprinkle hair with water, or run one's wet (with water, not product) hands through hair and then wet them again and them run them through hair again, and then again, and yet again. Don't think I have two hours for that each morning... :)
  • SarahZminaSarahZmina Registered Users Posts: 15
    You could always get Kinky Curly's Knot Today and put that in your hair after you wash it. See if that helps.
    Types
    3a on top and 3b underneath


    Products
    Wash: Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle Shampoo
    Co-Wash: WEN Tea Tree Mint Conditioner
    Condition:DevaCurl OneCondition
    Leave-In:DevaCurl OneCondtion
    Stylers:Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper and DevaCare Arc AnGel
  • NaturalistaNaturalista Registered Users Posts: 5,491 Curl Neophyte
    Manipulating curly hair while dry is going to hurt you in the end by creating split ends, frizz, breakage, and the very same tangles you're trying to prevent. Curly hair should only be manipulated when wet or dampened and after you've set your hair, left alone. Curly hair once its dries, has a tendency to clump and intertwine-- so fingercombing is counterproductive as the hair is doing what is does naturally and you're disturbing it. It will fall flat just as you say.

    Now, if you feel your hair isn't falling (or looking) the way you want it to, its a question of product use and technique. Perhaps if you explain to us your hair goals it may help us answer your question better. Also where is it tangling? At the ends? Single strand knots may be the issue and the answer is that you have to use conditioner and load your hair up in the shower, and get rid of shed hairs with a shampoo brush or denman.

    Hmm.. lots of factors here. Looking forward to your reply.
    Type: 3c with some 4a highlighted
    Low porosity thick/coarse texture. nml elasticity
    Routine: No rules, just happy hair

    Cleanse: CJDF, Prell, LUSH Curly Wurly, Bobeam
    LI/RO:BBB, CJ, SheaM, HEHIS, Garnier, KBN Shealoe, CD Chocolat, Oyin HH
    Styling: CJ, CR, UFD, Zuresh, Ecostyler,MJ
    PT/DT: BBB, CJ, Lather, MJSSB

    HUGE PJJJJJJJJ!!!!:love4:

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]]
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  • Marci PieMarci Pie Registered Users Posts: 668 Curl Connoisseur
    I agree with everyone else. You must keep your hands out of your hair or it will frizz.

    I only comb hair when it is wet. The Denman brush works wonders.

    Do you use any products in your hair? Because that it could be the problem with the frizz. If I didn't put any product in and then touched my hair, I would be a big puff ball.

    3b, Medium-Coarse (slight coarse charactericstics), Normal porosity & Low elasticity per Curl Wizard Profile.
    Low-poo: Nourish Shampoo, Cantu Quinoa Shampoo for Color-Treated Hair, Decadence No Poo
    Co-wash: Nourish Conditioner, Suave, Aussie Moist, Clairol Natural Blends Coconut
    Deep Conditioner: Loreal Total Repair Balm, Cantu Masque
    Leave-in: Nourish Conditioner (Trader Joe's), Decadence Conditioner
    Stylers: LA Looks Sports, Homemade Flax Seed Gel, Devacurl Ultradefining Gel, Coconut Oil
    Methods: Sleep with extra large satin bonnet. Able to get 7 day hair. Prior to getting 7 day:Wet plop or pineapple at night, diffuse in the morning. Scrunch w/joboba, coconut or almond oil.
  • curls 2nvcurls 2nv Registered Users Posts: 318
    is there a reason why u dont use conditioner???

    i guess if u buy a spray bottle and wet ur hair it may help to clump it back up. but condish definately helps with slip so that detangling is much easier.

    to be honest, i used to pull apart tangles on my dry hair too. granted i did it before washing because as soon as the water would touch my hair, i would have dreads!! but i always co washed and detangled with conditioner afterwards so i dont know how to handle that serious frizz afterward.


    lol i may need to look back into that before washing because my canopy is giving me hayell...
    CG Curly
    Why does the pj monster haunt me so?:twisted:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Growing my bf's hair from cbl to apl
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Registered Users Posts: 2,573 Curl Neophyte
    If you don't use conditioner, I'm going to guess that you're not following the Curly Girl approach, since conditioner is an integral part of CGing. Would you mind telling us what your hair care routine is? There's a good chance that has an impact on your frizziness.

    FWIW when following the CG approach, finger combing is done after washing our hair.

    Before starting CG I didn't use a conditioner. My hair is extremely fine, and it got weighed down if I used conditioner. What I didn't know was that it was the combination of cones (in a spray detangler) along with conditioners which was the problem. Once I got rid of the cones, my hair started responding much better to conditioners; and once all my pre-CG hair had been cut off, I saw a huge difference.

    That said, if it's winter where you are, that's probably a large part of the problem. At this time of year, dew points are extremely low, and that dries hair out big time. When it's dry, it goes out in search of moisture, and that's frizz.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
    Naturalista, my hair tangles in the back because it's pretty long. I'd say the reason is shed hairs. They don't get out of my mane if I don't comb and help the hair to tangle. My routine is washing my hair with no SLS shampoo as rarely as possible. I want my hair to just be more *together*, I want hairs in a lock to be close together like some girls have, not as voluminous as mine and less frizzy, less single hairs just floating around like a halo.

    Marci Pie, yes, I don't use products. I used lots of such and they sucked. Plus, I hate the plastic, rigid or just some kind of weird feeling to my hair that products give.

    Curls 2nv, yes, the reason I don't use conditioner is that it causes my hair to dry out and tangle more in the long run. I am actually trying to wet my hair just a little so that it would dry quickly and it helps a bit, so yeah, this one helps. As for detangling while dry - since I don't use condish anymore that's my way, works for me. Only I try to not let it tangle too severely before I detangle cause I'm not sure I'll be able to dry-detangle those:)

    Morgan_Adcock, over years I've tried lots of routines, so can't say Curly Girl is anything new. My routine is washing my hair with no SLS shampoo as rarely as possible. Mmm, well, recently I picked up wetting the top just a bit to define curls more. I try to handle my hair as little as possible at all times and braid the lower part for the night to avoid dreads. "finger combing is done after washing our hair" - when dry? Why? One doesn't wash one's hair when it's tangled, right? But if wet - that's kinda superdamaging. Conditioner is out of the question because I have none without cons within my reach, btw weighing down does not work on me - my hair is very fluffy, no conditioner I tried did the trick. What does weigh down my hair is gel but I guess you understand I don't want to go there. Yes, it's winter but I can't say my hair looks any different in summer.

    Everyone thanks for your support!!!

    Btw today I saw this curly girl who had her hair in a bun but you could see how curly it was and it was spectacular!!! She had, like, ZERO frizz. This is the first time EVER I saw a person with naturally curly hair on their head who had literally no frizz (and the hair was not mousse loaded; hers actually looked like it had no product in it at all). I could not even imagine that was physically possible.
  • NaturalistaNaturalista Registered Users Posts: 5,491 Curl Neophyte
    Hopefully you ran that girl down and asked her what the deal was. :toothy8: It could be something you could try.

    I had a feeling it was shed hair and the best way to get rid of it is to use a small bristled device with conditioner loaded into your hair. My suggestions would be a shampoo brush, tangle teezer, or a denman. Try the 1st 2 b4 getting a denman. Sometimes the denman isn't as gentle and can be tearing.

    You also may have to realize that your hair doesnt clump on it own and it needs help. What exactly are you using in your hair that makes it feel strange? Products with alcohol and cones can often do that. Let us know ane perhaps we can recommend stuff for you to try. Decreasing the Volume and frizz could be as simple as changing your wash routine and you using a different gel. You can't control volume without gel. Frizz can be dealt with using conditioner, oil or gel.

    HTH
    Type: 3c with some 4a highlighted
    Low porosity thick/coarse texture. nml elasticity
    Routine: No rules, just happy hair

    Cleanse: CJDF, Prell, LUSH Curly Wurly, Bobeam
    LI/RO:BBB, CJ, SheaM, HEHIS, Garnier, KBN Shealoe, CD Chocolat, Oyin HH
    Styling: CJ, CR, UFD, Zuresh, Ecostyler,MJ
    PT/DT: BBB, CJ, Lather, MJSSB

    HUGE PJJJJJJJJ!!!!:love4:

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]]
    Facebook|Twitter
  • crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
    Thanks, Naturalista! It's just that applying conditioner involves wetting my whole head and needing to dry it, and I really don't need to wash my hair as often as I need to detangle it... Like I said, currently I use zero product except oil which in small amounts does nothing to my frizziness but if I overload my hair with oil it just looks - gues what :))) - oily... So far oil is the only product I feel works for me. I've tried most conditioners on the market here and I am really not willing to try any more - they all feel the same. Same goes for gel. I don't want my hair glued together, I want it like that girl had it - alive and natural, only not frizzy. And no, I didn't ask her what she is using :D Maybe I'm just asking too much from my hair:))) You like your hair? (Just curious?)
  • NaturalistaNaturalista Registered Users Posts: 5,491 Curl Neophyte
    Thanks, Naturalista! It's just that applying conditioner involves wetting my whole head and needing to dry it, and I really don't need to wash my hair as often as I need to detangle it... Like I said, currently I use zero product except oil which in small amounts does nothing to my frizziness but if I overload my hair with oil it just looks - gues what :))) - oily... So far oil is the only product I feel works for me. I've tried most conditioners on the market here and I am really not willing to try any more - they all feel the same. Same goes for gel. I don't want my hair glued together, I want it like that girl had it - alive and natural, only not frizzy. And no, I didn't ask her what she is using :D Maybe I'm just asking too much from my hair:))) You like your hair? (Just curious?)

    I love my hair. Now does it drive me nuts sometimes? Most definitely, but I learned that in order to take the best care of it that I had to learn it and figure out what it needs. Part of that is letting go my own personal ideas and often times misconceptions regarding proper hair care and frankly, experimenting. What's on the general market I discovered had very little value to me and that my hair thrived using natural products. My hair doesn't feel funny, nor do my curls stick together. Loving my hair came from learning about products and technique. You have to do what's right for you, but its clear to me tbat you only see your hair one way and want it to be one way instead of trying to help it succeed and embrace your curls as they are. There's no magic bullet to tangles ezcept to detangle There's no shortcut to combating dryness but to add moisture, and I canguarantee you your postergirl is using conditioner, mousse, gel, or some combo involving those. You have to decide though, and do what's right for you in the end.

    Good luck.

    Eta: you don't need to wash your hair to detangle. All it takes is a spray bottle to dampen with a light mist and then detangle without losing hair. Reapply your styers afterwards and then you can airdry quickly and you're done.
    Type: 3c with some 4a highlighted
    Low porosity thick/coarse texture. nml elasticity
    Routine: No rules, just happy hair

    Cleanse: CJDF, Prell, LUSH Curly Wurly, Bobeam
    LI/RO:BBB, CJ, SheaM, HEHIS, Garnier, KBN Shealoe, CD Chocolat, Oyin HH
    Styling: CJ, CR, UFD, Zuresh, Ecostyler,MJ
    PT/DT: BBB, CJ, Lather, MJSSB

    HUGE PJJJJJJJJ!!!!:love4:

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]]
    Facebook|Twitter
  • crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
    Thanks. I actually tried to experiment these last couple days: I would wet the top of my head and sqeeze the hair a bit so that it were really curly (dries fast and curls restored and kinda less frizzy). In the end of the day, I hated it (frizz was still there and it was just too curly).
    I think I'll stick to my usual routine of just washing my hair and braiding for the night (and detangle along the way) which makes it look pretty decent (minimum frizz) though breaks the curl pattern in weird ways (part is wavy, part is curly but of weird form).
    Maybe you are right about that girl using product. You are sure right about no shortcuts here:)))
  • kat180kat180 Registered Users Posts: 6,280 Curl Novice
    So you just shampoo your hair every so often (using a SLS free poo) and the rest of the time use oil on your hair and finger comb your hair when dry?

    Hmmm going of your responses so far - I don't think you're going to like what I have to say but here goes...

    -don't finger comb with dry hair, thats just creating tangles, pulling on your hair and causing damage (not to mention -ow)

    -what products have you tried? You said you have used loads of high street conditioners and aren't willing to try anymore - but I think you need conditioner. If you have only been cleaning your hair with SLS free shampoo and using high street conditioners most of which contain silicones you have going to have build up and nasty greasy hair because your not using any sulphates to get rid of them. Have you read about the CG method? You need to try some natural silicone free conditioners. That's why your hair has felt bad when you used them.

    -I wash my hair once a week, but I wet and condition everyday. Many curlies only condition their hair every few days and can get 2nd/3rd/4th day hair if you hate the idea of of conditioning everyday but it takes patience to find out what works for you.

    -to tame frizz you are going to need a curl cream or gel. I think you have some fixed opinions about gels because they haven't worked out well for you in the past and hate the feel of them in your hair. I hated the idea of using gel - I hate that dry wet look and crunchiness in my hair. But again its all about the ingredients - most high street gels are very drying, they have alcohol and other stuff in you don't want - and need a sulphate shampoo to get out of your hair. There are many gel recommendations on the site that won't build up in your hair and once the crunch feeling has been scrunched out of your hair, leave nice soft bouncy curls. I would highly recommend you try out FSG - a easy cheap (pennies) homemade gel that doesn't even leave much of a crunch to scrunch out of your hair - its very moisturizing.

    -a lot of people use oils on their hair - but you need to use ones that will be absorbed and not just sit, coating your hair. It can take time to find out which ones your hair actually like, and I think you may be using too much.

    Conditioner will not dry out your hair. From what you have written your hair sounds very dry and damaged and needs a lot of TLC. That means only finger combing while wet and with conditioner. Using a good conditioner. I think you probably need some protein in your hair as well. But, no one can make you try out those things - its something you have to want to do. Check out this thread - do any of the women here have the kind of curls you are looking for?

    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/47609-post-your-before-after-cg-pics.html
  • blazejw24blazejw24 Registered Users Posts: 20
    Haha, WHOA, I've never even heard of a curly not wanting conditioner! My hair with out conditioner would be like my life without breath!! Haha. I know you're probably sick of hearing it, but I would suggest going back to conditioner. I would suggest that you wash your hair once with a sulfate shampoo and then go on to a silicone free conditioner. Also make sure that it doesn't have waxes. There are some really cheap ones (Suave, Kirkland (Costco brand)). They don't have to be super nice ones. Most people prefer to get the cheap ones because they don't feel guilty for saturating their hair :P.

    If you are completely and utterly opposed to the idea of conditioner then might I suggest a leave-in conditioner? This doesn't have to be fancy, in fact it could be a regular conditioner (I've heard good things about Suave Coconut Naturals or something...but I've never tried it). Many people just use and love "leave-in" conditioner as their styling product because it gives them moisture and a tiny bit of hold and control. Maybe just running a little bit of this over the canopy would help as well, or raking a little through the ends where it gets tangled?? A bonus here is that if you do get a tangle later when your hair is dry, if you spritzed your hair a tiny bit it would help with the untangling :)

    The fact that your hair tangles makes me wonder more about your routine, as my hair just doesn't tangle very often. Every now and then I'll get a knot in the shower, but I never notice them during the day. Are you running your fingers through your hair, or how do you notice them?? Maybe my hair is just weird with not getting tangles though, mine's not very long. When you apply your product (oil?) are you raking it through...or scrunching it through? Personally I rake and then supersoak and then scrunch. If you're not raking then could your scrunching be inadvertantly creating tangles?? I feel like most people get all the tangles out though when they put in their conditioner...

    I know you've mentioned that you don't want to try it, but I think most people on here would agree that it might be best if you gave conditioner another shot. Give it a legit 2-3 months - a silicone-free conditioner and no waxes or silicone in your product. Your hair may be eternally greatful :) Sorry if all of this conditioner pestering from myself and the fellow curlies here is getting agravating. We are all just trying to help. :D:D:D
    Routine:
    Rake in Glycerin & FSG
    Supersoak
    Spray in Aloe Vera
    Scrunch & Pump more FSG :D


    CG
    3A/3B & a little 3C
  • kat180kat180 Registered Users Posts: 6,280 Curl Novice
    Yes - I should add that I have 3b/3c hair and I extremely rarely have knots, another thing that makes me think your hair is dry and needs moisture.
  • crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
    Thanks, Kat180, that's a lot to think about, I was actually considering using some mousse this week but my hair looked fine so I didn't yet. Though my hair isn't dry or damaged, I've been looking for milder conditioners but all I have around are ones with nasty ingredients. I'll probably look into home made stuff here. CG is about making my hair more curly than I'd prefer to:) As for oils, well, my oil seems fine to me and a drop or two doesn't feel too much for me... One can barely see the difference.
    Well, you see, Blazejw24, thing is conditioner is not doing much good here - it kind of moisturized that's right but it never does anything with my frizz. As for leave-in - I've been searching for a leave-in product in this city forever - they don't feel too good and they don't do much to my frizz either. As for noticing knots - yeah, I run fingers through my hair - checking for knots XD &cause I often updo it during the day - for shower or gym or just to get it out of the way. AND because sans conditioner I can't detangle while washing my hair so I have to be careful and not get it tangled. As for where my tangles come from - I'm pretty sure wearing my hair loose does the trick, NOT applying oils or anything, you know, it just tangles, that's why combs were invented I suppose, to avoid dreads;)

    I have to confess I am not completely sure we have an understanding here cause curly hair is the hair to really tangle, you know, all those curls - they just curl over each other and one can't exactly run their hand through their hair freely, can they?
    And I also don't want my curls looking greasy like that 'wet' hair trend back in the late 90s.
  • kat180kat180 Registered Users Posts: 6,280 Curl Novice
    ^ OK. Well like I said - you have to want to try these things out and tbh it doesn't sound like you do, or that you're believing what any of us are saying.

    When my hair is dry I don't have knots - the curls are separated and I can run my fingers through it if I want to. I often playing with my curls - but I don't like to run my fingers over and over through it because it breaks up the curl pattern eventually. But, I rarely get knots, if I do have the odd one, once Im in the shower and the water has run over it, it just kind of falls out of my hair with very little, if no, effort on my part. Everyone's hair is different of course, but I used to have trouble with knots until I started taking care of my hair.

    I don't have greasy hair. Nor does it look greasy. That's a weird assumption to make - CG or using gel won't make your hair look greasy or 'wet'. Most hard hold gels will make your hair dry crunchy, which you then scrunch out so you get soft bouncy curls.

    CG is all about healthy hair and embracing what you have. A lot of people's hair once it starts to get healthier and more moisturized can start to curl more, which is something most people love as they learn to love their hair. Its a personal choice - no one's going to make you or tell you what's right for your hair.

    I have 3b/3c hair - not sure if that's anything like yours but these have been my experiences from CG and from chatting on this board I can tell you that a lot of people have also had great results from the knowledge thats passed around from curly to curly.
  • crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
    Kat180, where in my don't want my curls looking greasy like that 'wet' hair trend back in the late 90s you see me saying your hair looks greasy or wet? YOU keep saying how MY hair is damaged or dry without even seeing it! Your hair looks completely different from mine and if you can run your fingers through your hair easily - I am happy for you but I guess my hair is different. I can indeed style my hair to look like those CG pictures ppl post on this forum but I DON'T LIKE IT and my hair still tangles - so what's the point? Anyways, I am thankful for all the advice ppl gave me in this topic, and I did try some and will try more at some point because I tend to incorporate things in my routine as at smaller scale they tend to be handy.
  • curlylauracurlylaura Registered Users Posts: 8,352 Curl Neophyte
    Take the advice offered or don't take it, it's entirely up to you.

    Without even seeing your hair, I am more than likely right saying you need conditioner and/or a trim.
    Fat does not make you fat. It's actually pretty important.
  • SariaSaria Registered Users Posts: 15,963
    So you don't like any of the hair in the CG thread even though it varies from person to person? My hair is also 3b/3c and it looks nothing like kat's, for example (though I wish!).
    Mousse, by the way, would dry out your hair.
    And I'm sure the person you saw had product in her hair. Well-styled hair looks like it has no product.
    por-que-no-te-callas.jpg
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Registered Users Posts: 17,502 Curl Neophyte
    Seeing as you don't like any of the hair on this forum, and you don't like conditioner, perhaps you should just get your hair straightened. You just sound ready to wear curly hair.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Banned Users Posts: 24,963 Curl Neophyte
    How about plopping overnight?
    Saves the time in the AM :dontknow:
  • ninja dogninja dog Registered Users Posts: 23,780 Curl Neophyte
    Saria wrote: »
    So you don't like any of the hair in the CG thread even though it varies from person to person? My hair is also 3b/3c and it looks nothing like kat's, for example (though I wish!).
    Mousse, by the way, would dry out your hair.
    And I'm sure the person you saw had product in her hair. Well-styled hair looks like it has no product.


    So hard to achieve........:crybaby:
  • Jess the MessJess the Mess Registered Users Posts: 5,844 Curl Neophyte
    LOL...

    OP coming from a very fine haired curly your hair can take a lot of conditioner if you stop using shampoo. Look in to conditioner only styling if you prefer a looser curl pattern...

    And try the Tangle Teezer for tangles. You can get it at Sally's. It's amazing.

    More conditioner can lead to less grease and frizz if you follow CG and find what works.
    High Priestess JessMess, follower of the Goddess of the Coiling Way and Confiscator of Concoctions in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

  • OnduleeOndulee Registered Users Posts: 1,305 Curl Connoisseur
    maybe your hair needs a protein treatment instead of moisture.
    My hair was horrendously frizzy for two years when I used moisturizing conditioner but since I switched to a heavy duty protein conditioner that I rinse out every time, my frizz has greatly reduced and after almost a full year of protein only (no moisture whatsoever) my porosity has come into the normal range(had my hair analyzed) and no longer tangles and knots. I can finger comb with just water in the shower and remove shed hairs and my hair never tangles.

    Myself and Cowcurlygirly(I think i got her name right) have the same kind of hair and we have never hit a protein wall with almost daily use of heavy protein treatment paks. Maybe you'd be willing to try this?

    Sally's Beauty supply carries an inexpensive version of the protein pak I use most often.

    SBS-264022?wid=225&hei=225&fmt=jpeg,rgb&qlt=85,1&op_sharpen=1&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.9,1.0,4,0&iccEmbed=0
    shoulder length bob; fine; 3A-3B; thin density; normal porosity; normal elasticity- my hair loves keratin, ACV, silk protein ,Curlkeeper and AG:Recoil ; needs moisturizing products and hates oils except mineral oil; CG- Jan/'09-mod CG Sept/'09;CG again Jan/'10/mod CG from Mar'10


  • crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
    Curlylaura, honey, I don't need a trim or conditioner. See, that's your problem - making assumptions without even knowing the degree of my problem. I want everything perfect. Even slight frizz drives me nuts. Sometimes I have very little frizz, it all depends. If I don't write here regularly this doesn't mean I don't know how to look after my hair or damage it severely. God.
    Saria, I haven't seen all of the pictures in that thread but for those maybe 10 pages I did scroll through I did not really like any. I can make my hair look that way with a lemon rinse or gel/mousse but I don't like that style at all. About mousse drying hair - yeah, I guess you're right.
    Redcelticcurls, I can't straighten it - my hair is superfine, it gets damaged really easily.
    Wile E Coyote - CFF Champ/Lone Ranger, hm, plopping? First time I hear about it - opened couple pages on the thing right now so I'll read into it, thanks.
    Ondulee, protein? - now that's the real talk. And yeah, my hair has natural high porosity Maybe you'd be willing to try this? I am indeed willing to try this, thanks!!!
  • blazejw24blazejw24 Registered Users Posts: 20
    Hi,
    I'm sorry if you feel like people are attacking your hair, these are just the methods that we know work for us, we're just responding based on our knowledge base of what we know of the type of hair that you've described. But you're right...we don't know you're hair. Could you maybe give us the details (porosity, texture..) or maybe a picture and a list of things that you've tried (and of course how your hair resonded)?? The reason people keep on suggesting conditioner is because a lack of moisture is typically what causes frizz. The hairs are looking for moisture, and since there is moisture in the air the hairs go out to get, at least that's how I imagine it in the cartoon world of my mind :D Some shafts are really hard to penetrate though, and the moisture just won't go through. This can be because of damage (so new growth might respond better), porosity, and many other issues I'm not knowledgable about :P
    Also, just FYI - I also don't think Kat180 thought you were calling her hair greasy. When I read those posts I understood that you were worried that your hair could get greasy, and she was just saying that in her experience it never made her hair greasy :)

    Plopping, in my experience, is fantastical and I use it. It has helped with the frizz soooo incredibely much; however, for me it 'encourages' the curl, which it sounds like you're trying to avoid. Basically think of how people scrunch their hair to encourage curl, but then you're continuously scrunching your hair for the whole night, or however long you leave it in.

    Also conditioner, or a thick layer of products, can help weigh your hair down (less curl) and may result in less frizz as well. Thicker conditioners tend to weigh it down more.

    I've never tried it, but could you comb your hair in the shower with the shampoo in your hair?? I guess it might depend on the type of shampoo you have. I think the main reason that people do it with conditioner is because of the slip it gives your hair which can help detangle with out ripping your hair out. If your shampoo has any type of slip you might be able to comb then. I'd be cautious the first time I tried it though, slowly working your way higher and higher.

    Have you ever tried supersoaking?? I use this technique and find it to be simply awesome. This technique can help with clumping. Oftentimes if you have larger curls your hair can look less curly, more like hollywood waves I guess. Honestly I completely agree with you with some of the pictures I've seen like on devacurl and all those types of sites. I just don't like some of their curls. You can tell which direction they raked their curls and they are sometimes funny shaped. On the whole though I love most of their methods and I get great results. I just tweak them a little to get what I want out of them. The most important thing is that the wearer likes the curls he or she is wearing. Confidence is the most beautiful thing about it. :)

    And finally...have you ever tried making flax seed gel? Some people consider it a hastle, but I love it. The best thing is you can tailor it to your needs. I'm just guessing, but you probably won't want magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) for example..as it encourages curl; however, you may want something like jojoba oil or glycerin to help moisturize, but it shouldn't weigh down your curls too bad. You drench your hair with the FSG, but it dries as if it's not weighted down. You could put clips on the end though when it's drenched with gel to stretch them out if you'd like. BTW - I'm so jealous that you have more curl then you want! :P The nice thing about FSG though is that you can mix, match and add whatever your hair needs. Plus it's uber cheap! :)
    Routine:
    Rake in Glycerin & FSG
    Supersoak
    Spray in Aloe Vera
    Scrunch & Pump more FSG :D


    CG
    3A/3B & a little 3C
  • crrrazycurlycrrrazycurly Registered Users Posts: 22
    Blazejw24, thanks for such a detailed reply!!! Wow, now I have a lot to reply to)) Okay, let's start with my hair, again. So it's fine, a hairdresser once told me it has high natural porosity, it's 3b, medium to dark blond, pretty much healthy but easily breaks and gets damaged and gets split ends - all my life. Hairdressers always admire it so I don't think one can say it's in bad condition though it has its issues, though at the same time they often say it's quite dry after completely disagreeing with my claims that my hair is dry ten minutes before that. I use jojoba oil for moisture, no-SLS shampoo (tried combing while washing - no, this is not good). Everything that weights down my hair makes is look pretty sad. Styling products turn my supersoft tender hair into something that is just unpleasant to have on one's head. Even those that swear they don't create the stiff effect. Everyone is always shocked when they feel my hair and it's so soft because everyone else's hair is much more strong than mine. They recently charged me with baby cut fee at the hairdressers' because of that. I'll have to look into supersoaking and flax seed gel - I believe I might be able to buy flax seed something in stores because I bet I saw smth like that. Yeah, plopping is kind of scary that way cause I really have enough curl already. On LHC they just reminded me of not toweling hair after washing and I came back to that and it helped a lot and I am actually even happy with my cucumber tendril hair))) You know, like this. It's kind of fun))))

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