CurlTalk

Porn and men's lowly view of women

BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
Okay, I'm not a fuddy duddy. I get it why men want to look at naked women. I'm not against porn, per se. I am disgusted by porn that debases women. My husband's friend sent him a link of three women with their freshly shaven vaginas exposed and sparklers up their anuses. The sparkers were lit and then it said "Happy New Years." I'm not mad at my husband...he was the receiver, not the sender of this link. But it made me lose respect for his friend.

I know sexism is alive and well. I'm not naive. I am aware that most men think they are superior to most women...there are some men who are exceptions...some great men out there that do not value women less than them...but I'm convinced most men really devalue women.
We are the ones that give birth, nurture, we outlive men...we have a lot of positives going for us...we are smaller, weaker on average...but really? Does that make us inferior in men's eyes?
What is it?! When I saw this link...it brought back old issues for me. I used to obsess about sexism and how women get treated unfairly. I had to stop obessing, for my own sanity.
I can't help but think of it again.

I am just so angry about that.
Am I seeing things wrong? If I'm not, how do you keep your sanity through this? If I'm seeing things wrong, please help me see things better.

My New Year's Resolution is to have a more positive attitude...so I'm really TRYING to not let this bother me.
I now have my radar up, concerning my husband's friend. If I notice he's more sexist than the typical "benign well-intentioned" sexism, I am not going to like this man at all!
I hope I'm not over-reacting. Grrrrrr!
Help me keep my sanity and try to look at things more positively, if possible.
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Comments

  • mrspoppersmrspoppers Posts: 7,223Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I can definitely understand you being grossed out by the picture and thinking less of your husband's friend. I'm curious how you came to see the picture.
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  • ninja dogninja dog Posts: 23,780Registered Users
    This is a tough one, boomy.

    What I've heard from intelligent, reasonably sensitive men about porn aligns with what you've already said above. Yet, there's that element of debasement in much of it --- in porn --- that's deeply disturbing.

    I don't get it either. I want to be able to say something wise, or neutral, but....what you've described is both hurtful and demeaning. The friend who sent that link sounds like an ass.
  • ~Ghost Poster~~Ghost Poster~ Posts: 2,264Registered Users
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    Okay, I'm not a fuddy duddy. I get it why men want to look at naked women. I'm not against porn, per se. I am disgusted by porn that debases women. My husband's friend sent him a link of three women with their freshly shaven vaginas exposed and sparklers up their anuses. The sparkers were lit and then it said "Happy New Years." I'm not mad at my husband...he was the receiver, not the sender of this link. But it made me lose respect for his friend.

    I know sexism is alive and well. I'm not naive. I am aware that most men think they are superior to most women...there are some men who are exceptions...some great men out there that do not value women less than them...but I'm convinced most men really devalue women.
    We are the ones that give birth, nurture, we outlive men...we have a lot of positives going for us...we are smaller, weaker on average...but really? Does that make us inferior in men's eyes?
    What is it?! When I saw this link...it brought back old issues for me. I used to obsess about sexism and how women get treated unfairly. I had to stop obessing, for my own sanity.
    I can't help but think of it again.

    I am just so angry about that.
    Am I seeing things wrong? If I'm not, how do you keep your sanity through this? If I'm seeing things wrong, please help me see things better.

    My New Year's Resolution is to have a more positive attitude...so I'm really TRYING to not let this bother me.
    I now have my radar up, concerning my husband's friend. If I notice he's more sexist than the typical "benign well-intentioned" sexism, I am not going to like this man at all!
    I hope I'm not over-reacting. Grrrrrr!
    Help me keep my sanity and try to look at things more positively, if possible.

    I feel very much the same as you, boomy, and in the interest of brevity, I'll just leave it at that. As for how I maintain my sanity, I just try to view it all with a scientific eye only and try not to wrap my big, human-sized brain around it too much because therein lies the problem. It also helps to have an awesome, understanding bf, who is one of the one in a billion who either isn't like that (not very likely) or has matured and knows better how to keep that behavior under wraps (great possibility).

    More confusing to me is why women propagate this by allowing themselves to be photographed nude with sparklers shoved up their asses. Not enough $$ in the world to make me sell out like that (and don't anyone assume it's because I'm a h8ter...nothing wrong with my ass :wink: ).
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  • ninja dogninja dog Posts: 23,780Registered Users
    I've wondered about the women who do this, too. There's got to be something behind it.

    It makes me sad.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    ninja dog wrote: »
    I've wondered about the women who do this, too. There's got to be something behind it.

    It makes me sad.



    I'm fairly convinced that most women in the porn industry have emotional damage and/or a history of sexual abuse.

    I'd be wary of that "friend" also, Boomy.
  • SailaSaila Posts: 1,212Registered Users
    This is a very difficult question to answer. You're on to something here.

    I can't justify porn, and I don't want to. However, I do think it helps to put it in context. The internet is crazy, crazy, CRAZY place. It's not "real." It's a fantasy. As sick and disturbing it may be, it's not real. Think of how many people look at porn (men AND women). Then think of how many people actually act out on their "fantasies" or even want to. Obviously it's impossible to get numbers on this, but what I'm trying to say is this: the vast majority of people who view porn don't take it seriously.

    Now, that does not necessarily make it any less demeaning. It is what it is. :shock: People are people. People sometimes have sick fantasies. They always have. The internet just makes it possible for you to view it very easily.

    As others have said, it's important to note that the women are doing this willingly. (Whether they have problems and shouldn't be allowed to make these decisions is a different issue.) I've heard interviews of pornstars where they say they feel "empowered" and "beautiful." I've also heard interviews of former pornstars who have created a support group to help get young women out of porn. The main point is that women are allowed to speak up and do what they think is right. This is a tremendous privilege, regardless of gender.

    Yes, it is overall very saddening no matter how I look at it.

    The only thoughts that make me feel better is thinking about all the trials and tribulations womankind has gone through since the advent of agriculture. There's a long way to go, obviously, but there is also a huge amount of strength to be had in our collective success.

    On a personal level, what gives me hope is my SO. He is the most ridiculously compassionate, patient, kind and fair human being I know. Things like this make me sad, but knowing that there's people like him, it makes me feel better. He's often come up to me and said "I hate it when guys..." and brought up some of the points that you did. They're not all heartless *******s after all! :p

    I don't know if I made any sense, but I hope that helps you feel a little bit better.
  • CurlyHairedFarmerCurlyHairedFarmer Posts: 3,073Registered Users
    Ya know Boomy, I was just thinking about this. My SO and I were watching a movie when he got a picture message. He deleted it without even opening it. When I asked him why, he said that anything sent from this particular co worker is down right disgusting. He had never mentioned the texts before so when another one came in, I had him open it. It is always the same thing, naked women in degrading acts. I hadn't realized that porn had now moved on into text messaging world.
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  • forbeeforbee Posts: 441Registered Users
    Saila wrote: »
    This is a very difficult question to answer. You're on to something here.

    I can't justify porn, and I don't want to. However, I do think it helps to put it in context. The internet is crazy, crazy, CRAZY place. It's not "real." It's a fantasy. As sick and disturbing it may be, it's not real. Think of how many people look at porn (men AND women). Then think of how many people actually act out on their "fantasies" or even want to. Obviously it's impossible to get numbers on this, but what I'm trying to say is this: the vast majority of people who view porn don't take it seriously.

    Now, that does not necessarily make it any less demeaning. It is what it is. :shock: People are people. People sometimes have sick fantasies. They always have. The internet just makes it possible for you to view it very easily.

    As others have said, it's important to note that the women are doing this willingly. (Whether they have problems and shouldn't be allowed to make these decisions is a different issue.) I've heard interviews of pornstars where they say they feel "empowered" and "beautiful." I've also heard interviews of former pornstars who have created a support group to help get young women out of porn. The main point is that women are allowed to speak up and do what they think is right. This is a tremendous privilege, regardless of gender.

    Yes, it is overall very saddening no matter how I look at it.

    The only thoughts that make me feel better is thinking about all the trials and tribulations womankind has gone through since the advent of agriculture. There's a long way to go, obviously, but there is also a huge amount of strength to be had in our collective success.

    On a personal level, what gives me hope is my SO. He is the most ridiculously compassionate, patient, kind and fair human being I know. Things like this make me sad, but knowing that there's people like him, it makes me feel better. He's often come up to me and said "I hate it when guys..." and brought up some of the points that you did. They're not all heartless *******s after all! :p

    I don't know if I made any sense, but I hope that helps you feel a little bit better.

    This post is on point.

    Regarding the part I bolded, I've always been curious as to what exactly is "empowering" or "beautiful" about such acts. What is going on in the mind of the empowered porn star and why do they feel that way? Just wondering, not trying to be offensive or anything.
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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    nm
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    I posted this same thing on another forum. They kept responding how it is consensual, so it isn't a problem. I'm not advocating banning porn. I was just disturbed that this friend found it funny. I find it disturbing that violent porn that puts women as the butt of jokeks is considered funny. I'm the wacko on that forum for having the gut reaction that it is disturbing.
    It's more about him sending it to my husband. If he found it online, fine. Sharing it, well that makes me wonder.
    I'm not saying he is a scum bag. I'm saying it gives me pause about him. My radar is up. I'll see how he treats women in general for now on.
    Also, they debate with me the notion that men think they are superior to women. Anonymous studies have shown that most men do think they are smarter and more capablelll than women. Not all, but most. I see that attitude around me...it's more subtle, usually. but it's there.
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  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    mrspoppers wrote: »
    I can definitely understand you being grossed out by the picture and thinking less of your husband's friend. I'm curious how you came to see the picture.
    ita...
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  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 11,970Registered Users Curl Novice
    mrspoppers wrote: »
    I can definitely understand you being grossed out by the picture and thinking less of your husband's friend. I'm curious how you came to see the picture.
    ita...

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  • jenny curljenny curl Posts: 1,814Registered Users
    I wanted to add something here. My ex would sometimes get picture messages that I found disturbing but that he found funny, and I always questioned it. For example, he once sent me a picture message that was of 3 stick-people -- 2 guys and 1 girl. the girl was in the middle, on her hands and knees and bent at the waist, and there was a guy on each end (I'm sure you can figure out the rest) just going at it and pounding the crap out of her. Most people probably wouldn't be phased by this, but I always thought it to be mildly disturbing that my ex found things like this hysterical. A lot of it I assumed to be immaturity. But still.... seriously?

    I get what you're saying boomy. I hope to find a man who is more mature than your husband's friend.
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  • sew and sewsew and sew Posts: 3,443Registered Users
    I came across this article a few weeks ago and I appreciated the candor of some of the people interviewed. Why some men think porn is wrong.

    I have a whole Christian worldview when it comes to this, but I won't get into that here (unless I can be concise) because otherwise, it won't be constructive. It CAN be to share my thoughts there, but I would really put effort into all angles of it. There's a whole lot of others thoughts it would require speaking to, getting into apologetics and everything else.

    That being said, I thought this was really interesting (from the article) no matter where you're coming from:
    “Pornotopia is the place where [young men] can get even,” he wrote, “where women get what they ‘deserve’ and the guys never have to be tested, or face rejection. And so the pornographic universe becomes a place of homosocial solace, a refuge from the harsh reality of a more gender equitable world than has ever existed. It’s about anger at the loss of privilege — and an effort to restore men’s unchallenged authority. And, it turns out, that anger is worse among younger men.”
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  • jenny curljenny curl Posts: 1,814Registered Users
    I came across this article a few weeks ago and I appreciated the candor of some of the people interviewed. Why some men think porn is wrong.

    I have a whole Christian worldview when it comes to this, but I won't get into that here (unless I can be concise) because otherwise, it won't be constructive. It CAN be to share my thoughts there, but I would really put effort into all angles of it. There's a whole lot of others thoughts it would require speaking to, getting into apologetics and everything else.

    That being said, I thought this was really interesting (from the article) no matter where you're coming from:
    “Pornotopia is the place where [young men] can get even,” he wrote, “where women get what they ‘deserve’ and the guys never have to be tested, or face rejection. And so the pornographic universe becomes a place of homosocial solace, a refuge from the harsh reality of a more gender equitable world than has ever existed. It’s about anger at the loss of privilege — and an effort to restore men’s unchallenged authority. And, it turns out, that anger is worse among younger men.”

    That is a great article, s&s.
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  • slinky1slinky1 Banned Posts: 1,612Banned Users
    Guys don't have any respect for these women, either. They just want to f them, then maybe kick them in the face for being so disgusting, and move onto the next.

    It's not about anything but that.

    And being desired in that way is validation for the women.
    ;)
  • SuburbanbushbabeSuburbanbushbabe Posts: 15,402Registered Users
    That image is just gross. I mean, there's porn and then there's porn.
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  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    Thanks all. I feel better today. I was getting a mild depression about it yesterday, but I kept telling myself women have made a lot of progress, there are some great guys out there, and I will continue to assert myself.
    I am not saying this guy is a jerk...not yet, at least. I'm using this as a source of information and is making me more cautious about him...that's it. If he turns out to be a jerk, then bye bye. I don't want to surround myself with people that devalue women. Sorry, but no way.
    Maybe I was over-reacting, but I'm using that as A source (not THE source) of information in forming an opinon about whether I want this guy around me.

    Porn is going to exist...people will have sick senses of humor...but if a person treats me poorly because they devalue women or if I see a person treats a woman poorly...I don't have to put up with that.

    Thanks again!
    The study I was referring to about men feeling superior to women...I admit it's like a 17 year old study. What do you think? Of course, none of us know the majority of men. Again, I know some great guys. I don't surround myself with jerks. So, what do you think? Do you think most men think they are superior to women in intellect and ability? I can think of a few in my real life...but most either don't think it or are smart enough not to show that. Hmmm...what is your experience with this? Have things gotten A LOT better in the past 17 years?
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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
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  • subbrocksubbrock Posts: 8,212Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    Do you think most men think they are superior to women in intellect and ability?
    I think that all men and women in our society believe this at heart. This notion is part of the core of our culture.

    really? you believe that men are superior to women in intellect and ability?
  • SailaSaila Posts: 1,212Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    Do you think most men think they are superior to women in intellect and ability?
    I think that all men and women in our society believe this at heart. This notion is part of the core of our culture.

    Hmmm. No, I certainly do not feel that way. I have personally been never put down in terms of intellect or ability just because of my gender. I have also never witnessed this overtly. I know sexism is real. I also know that human beings - at the individual level - are conscientious and not drones of culture.

    To Eilonwy - Do you mind explaining why you feel this way?
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
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  • blackguitargirlblackguitargirl Posts: 492Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    I meant that I think everyone believes on some level that it's true, because that is what we're socialized to believe. Virtually everything about how our society is structured teaches us that men are all-around better than women. I think it's the same with racism, too. We can consciously reject it, but there's a lot to suggest that we can't fully escape it. And a lot of people don't really bother to consciously reject it, anyway.

    I agree. I've been reading Colorblind by Tim Wise and he basically says the bolded part of your post. It is what we are socialized to believe.
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  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Plus, a lot of people don't really bother to consciously reject it, anyway. They'll pay lip service to equality because they know that being racist or sexist is bad, but they never attempt to gain any deeper understanding of those issues.

    I think this is why sexism still exists. Not to say there aren't people out there that are misogynistic/outright sexist, but I think most just don't give a lot of thought to it, so it continues. For many, its easier to "go with the flow." And, yes, I think that's why racism exists for the most part. I live in the south (Texas) and I can guarantee that most white people I know believe black people deserve the same rights and opportunities as white people. However, that's about as far as they take it. They don't understand racism any deeper than that. There is no urge to fight racism; there is no urge to see how racism is even more than just outright discrimination "I only hire white people, not black." They don't understand that even well-intended people, who think they are egalitarian, can still hold on to racist beliefs and behaviors.
    I think reasonable people would say "yes, a woman deserves equal pay for truly equal work." However, it doesn't go deeper than that. There is no urge for the average person, both male and female, to fight sexism. There is no urge to see that sexism is so much in our culture. They don't question certain practices/ certain beliefs. Not because they are bad people...I have been guilty of it myself. When I catch myself, I try to make changes. I feel like I'm more conscientious than the "average person," but I have a lot more that I need to grow (both with sexism and racism). I am well-intended, but I need to take a step further.

    However, I just hate the idea of a man looking at me and smuggly thinking that he's better than me, just because he's male and I'm female. That annoys me to no end. Yes, some men are smarter than me, some women are too. I am smarter than some men and some women. Most men are stronger than me...and I believe most women are stronger than me too. I hope my lack of strength doesn't make me "inferior" though. It surely would in certain competitions or physically demanding jobs.
    I am "book smarter" than my husband. My husband is stronger and is a jack of all trades...he is also a better cook. I think we're both pretty good at "reading people." He's more social; I'm more in-tune to things, I question things more, I am more conscientious about social issues. I could go on and on. Is he superior or am I? I don't think it should even be a contest.
    However, I really do think many men do that...many (not all) get their self-esteem by putting down women and thinking that they are at least better than half of the population.

    This is disturbing to me. Maybe it's just human nature to dichotomize and to put things in hierarchies. Maybe it's some neurotic twisted thing...which I believe it to be.

    So, it goes back to my husband's friend...which for the most part, I think of him as a kind of friend or a good acquaintance. It really pisses me off to think that he thinks he's better than me because I'm some lowly woman. I really hope I'm wrong. I don't know why it annoys me what one person thinks...I think it's because sexism is still alive and well...I see it as a symptom of it and this is just one more thing I get to be "blessed" with dealing with. Ugggh!

    Sexism pisses me off! It really does. When it effects my personal life...even more so than pay inequalities (which pisses me off too)...I think "how dare you, a-hole!"
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  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    Boomy...how did you find out about the pic, tho?
    Or did I miss that?!
    0004.gif

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  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    I feel very much the same as you, boomy, and in the interest of brevity, I'll just leave it at that. As for how I maintain my sanity, I just try to view it all with a scientific eye only and try not to wrap my big, human-sized brain around it too much because therein lies the problem.

    Scientific eye? Can you explain that as far as this topic goes? I'm very interested.
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  • jenny curljenny curl Posts: 1,814Registered Users
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    I feel very much the same as you, boomy, and in the interest of brevity, I'll just leave it at that. As for how I maintain my sanity, I just try to view it all with a scientific eye only and try not to wrap my big, human-sized brain around it too much because therein lies the problem.

    Scientific eye? Can you explain that as far as this topic goes? I'm very interested.

    Maybe she meant factual? Just guessing. Like, to try and view it factually, at face value, rather than overly thinking about it hence driving her insane.
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  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    Boomy...how did you find out about the pic, tho?
    Or did I miss that?!

    I was using my husband's phone for his sports application...he has an iPhone. I was checking on the Spurs.
    He hadn't closed his text messages, so when I unlocked his phone, it went straight to his text message. In the past, when that happens, I immediately close it. But this link (a picture of a woman's buttocks with something in it) was shown as the text message. (too obvious to ignore) The pic was offensive enough. I admit it was wrong to take it a step further and play the link, but I just wanted to see this. So, I did. My husband was asleep and I hadn't told him about it.
    I trust my husband. I know he won't cheat on me. He is faithful to a fault...with me and with his friends. I don't check up on him. He goes out with his friends and I don't question it. I say "have a good time." However, I admitted today I checked his phone to see if he forwarded it to any of his friends, and he did not. He passed my test. Yay!
    He doesn't know that I saw the link, so I haven't brought it up to him.
    Porn isn't an issue with him. He's one of those well-intention benign sexists. He thinks it's a man's place to protect women (nice) but he does think over all women have less intellect and ability...not all women, but just on average. We've had discusssions about this. He doesn't take it deeper and further. He compliments women who exceeds his expectations. He is positive around women, but he is sexist himself. I don't think he thinks the link is offensive, but maybe just stupid/juvenile.
    I think maybe in his friend's case it was mostly stupid/juvenile with some sexism thrown in. I did think his friend is sexist, but maybe the "benign" kind...which isn't good, but it's more well-intended???
    However, he may be more sexist than that. I do think deep in his heart he thinks he's better than women. However, he's always been respectful to me, he's asked my opinion about something very personal with him, and he has referred to me as smart.
    I know it's complex. I am keeping my eyes/ears open a little more around him though, because if it's more than just "benign well-intended" sexism, I'm not going to stand for it.

    Why do I stand for "well intended" sexism? I don't like it, but I know most people (male and female) have it to some degree. I look at their intention...I try to correct them without sounding preachy. They are easier to deal with and again, I think most mean well. My husband would give up his life for me if ever someone tried to attack us. He loves me, I know that. He respects me personally. He is proud that I am well-educated, smart, career woman. He believes equal pay for equal work. However, he prides himself in being the "man" and being able to take care of me. His heart is in the right place...but believe me, it's annoying too.
    That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

    I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.
    :blob8:

    3a/3b
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    jenny curl wrote: »
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    I feel very much the same as you, boomy, and in the interest of brevity, I'll just leave it at that. As for how I maintain my sanity, I just try to view it all with a scientific eye only and try not to wrap my big, human-sized brain around it too much because therein lies the problem.

    Scientific eye? Can you explain that as far as this topic goes? I'm very interested.

    Maybe she meant factual? Just guessing. Like, to try and view it factually, at face value, rather than overly thinking about it hence driving her insane.

    That's not what I mean. I mean take it a step further. What is the scientific way of viewing this? I'd like to know, so that I don't have to over-think it, so to speak.
    Porn that is geared towards humiliation, possibly bordering on violence...what is the scientific explanation of why some viewers enjoy this?

    The explanation that one poster mentioned about a fantasy to regain male privilege just makes me more mad, not less. I know that isn't a scientific explanation, although it is plausible. What is the scientific explanation, though?
    That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

    I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.
    :blob8:

    3a/3b
  • emthefantasticalemthefantastical Posts: 962Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    Do you think most men think they are superior to women in intellect and ability?
    I think that all men and women in our society believe this at heart. This notion is part of the core of our culture.

    I don't think that any decent man or woman would say that men are superior to women intellectually and that they believe that to their core. I say decent because there are a lot of just plain sexists out there, male and female, and I do not include them in this group.

    However, like Eilonwy said, on some level this is true because it is what we are socialized, in one way or another, to believe that women are inferior to men. And maleness is considered the "norm", and it is extremely difficult to escape systemic bigotry. And I think that many men will say that they don't believe women are inferior to them intellectually, but just because they say that, they still have male privilege.

    Personally, my household never emphasized those things, as I was from a single-mom home and my mom didn't really "feminize" me as many households do. I also grew up without a strong father-figure, and I saw my mom doing everything, so in my mind, men weren't really a necessary factor in happiness, because my mom was able to provide for us and give us a relatively comfortable and happy lifestyle relative to friends and family who had more "traditional" families. I was put into sports that were not traditionally female (gymnastics dance) and I never really was given barbie dolls or any sort of doll. However, as soon as puberty hit, and I was told by the media that wearing basketball shorts and not wearing make up or caring about my hair was wrong, that I became significantly more aware of what the media was saying was appropriate for women to look like.

    This is why I personally think that, at least in Western World culture, that woman are not so much tied down due to lack of opportunity, but because we are being oppressed within our own bodies, because of what women are expected to look like. In that sense, I think women are made inferior to men because men are not held to the same beauty standards as women. And while men can say, "oh that's bad", they will balk at women who decide to fight those beauty standards by not shaving, not wearing make up, not dressing traditionally feminine, etc. I think this is one of the most obvious forms of oppression today. Yes there is a pay gap, yes women are underrepresented in politics. However, just look at the last election and how many people, instead of commenting on their policy, commented on Hilary Clinton's and Sarah Palin's physical attributes and clothing, as if those things are more important than their beliefs or qualifications. Much of the conversation went, "Well Sarah Palin is attractive and Hilary Clinton looks like a man" (she doesn't but she doesn't dress as feminine as Palin does) and not "Well Hilary Clinton actually knows what she's talking about and Sarah Palin is seriously underqualified".
    2c/3a
    somewhere between fine and medium texture
    average porosity underneath, fairly high porosity in the canopy



    cowash: Suave Tropical Coconut
    rinse-out: GFTN, One-C
    styling: LALSG, EcoStyler, Deva Styling Cream

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