Hi and thank you

Alycat

I've been lurking around this site for two years, have very, very very fine, soft fluffy hair that defies categorisation. Sort of 2b with extra wurl I think as it changes direction all over my head. There isn't a hair twin for me anywhere, even on here!

But I have learned so much from you all and my hair now looks much better most of the time - and when it doesn't I no longer think it's because I just can't manage my hair when everyone else in the world can, it's that all wavies struggle with similar problems.

Thank you to Plunkybug for the Cotton Seed Curl Boost recommendation - it works for me, and not much does!

And thank you to whoever it was who said: "Wavy hair is inconsistent. Its response to styling is inconsistent. The wave pattern on your head is probably inconsistent." I have that printed out and looking at it prevents much hair frustration.

IAgirl

Hi! Welcome to the "very fine, soft, fluffy hair club!" Hair like milkweed down -- I know that well.
Glad you're learning to work with your temperamental hair and finding encouragement here.

Alycat

Thanks IA girl - fluffies of the world unite I say!

wavynwild16

Glad you're enjoying the site and learning a lot from us! We all have hair problems once in a while, but that's just a part of our wavy hair's personality. Go, wavies!

Alycat

At least my hair problems are fewer - or at least different - since I found this site!

pedaheh

Alycat wrote: »

And thank you to whoever it was who said: "Wavy hair is inconsistent. Its response to styling is inconsistent. The wave pattern on your head is probably inconsistent." I have that printed out and looking at it prevents much hair frustration.

Hey...I think I said that. Glad you liked the quote and it helps you with the frustration of having wavy hair. You might also like this quote from Valcurl and the quote in my siggi.

Wavy hair is NOT a good option for those with a need to control! lol.

Alycat

Thanks Pedaheh! I originally found the quote when I was having a sneaky look at this site while I was at work, copied just the quote and emailed it to myself at home and then I couldn't find it on the site again.

But I've got it sitting beside my computer so I look at it every day - I'll add your other two quotes to it!

My hair is sooo inconsistent - having had a couple of great days, and even good second days, today I did exactly what I usually do and it is just wild and fluffy and mostly sticking straight up - refers self back to quote: "The results from styling it are inconsistent." Oh well, tomorrow is another day.....

Just seen in your siggie you use the gelatin PT - I was thinking of trying that. I've got protein in all my products but haven't done a specific treatment - is that a reasonable one to start with, or should I just try a bit of natural yoghurt first?

Alycat

Pedaheh - just seen IAgirl's thread on the gelatin PT - definitely going to pick up some gelatin and try it out.

pedaheh

Alycat wrote: »

Just seen in your siggie you use the gelatin PT - I was thinking of trying that. I've got protein in all my products but haven't done a specific treatment - is that a reasonable one to start with, or should I just try a bit of natural yoghurt first?

Let me see if I have your stats correct. I sometimes get people confused. You are from England, have very fine hair (small circumference of each individual hair) and you don't need much conditioner.

I think the gelatin PT is somewhat stronger then your normal PT. (I'm a bad judge of PT strength, but I think this is what others have said.) If your hair is very fine and you already know you like protein, I'd guess this should work for you. PTs are almost always good for fine hair. (see IAgirl's thread on fine vs. coarse hair for pictures of fine and coarse hair. You will see fine hair has less protein in the cortex.) If the gelatin PT would turn out to be too much protein, you just keep adding moisture in the form of DTs until you are back to normal. I'd guess it should be fine for your hair.
The protein molecules in collagen (in gelatin) are the right size to get into the hair. The protein molecules in most other food are too large to easily penetrate the hair's cortex. This makes these PTs less effective.
After your rinse out the PT and before the DT it is normal for your hair to feel rough or hard. The DT will bring your hair back to normal. After my first PT but before the DT I thought "Oh no! I broke my hair.":money:

There is a group of fine haired people here that need little conditioner and truckloads of protein. You may turn out to one of them.

Alycat

Hi Pedaheh, yep, that's me, fine and English, not much need for conditioner. I'll pick up some gelatin next time I'm food shopping and give it a try.

I'd be willing to bet I am one of those who needs truckloads of protein, my hair looks better for days after I've used the Cotton Seed Curl Boost, which has several sorts of protein high up in the ingredients list.

Thanks for the warning over what it feels like after a PT! I'll let you know how it goes.

pedaheh

Alycat wrote: »

Thanks for the warning over what it feels like after a PT! I'll let you know how it goes.

Not everyone's hair feels terrible, but it is normal if it does feel bad. Some people have hair that feels just fine after a PT and before a DT.

Alycat

Pedaheh - I did it! And I've been walking round all day with about four times the amount of hair on my head than I usually have.

My hair didn't feel particularly rough afterwards, just really full.

It's a bit less curly than it sometimes is, but I did use more of a heavier conditioner than I usually do and I combed it through with the Tangle Teezer rather than the Denman, which leaves it smooth but often straighter, and it was raining today, so I wouldn't expect major curls - but I certainly wouldn't expect massive amounts of bounce either and I've still got that.

It seems my hair really does like protein and I'm all for anything that gives me more volume, so how often do you think I should repeat it, once a week, twice week maybe? Thank you for your help.

pedaheh

Yea! Glad your hair responded to the magic of protein. If you feel your hair got too much/strong conditioner, you can cut back next time. Some people don't need strong conditioning after PTs, and it sounds like you may be one of them.
How often should you PT? The answer is when you need it again. When your hair starts to loose its bounce and other positive effects of the PT it is time to do one again. If your hair starts to feel rough, hard, looses curl (for some) you are doing your PTs too close together and are getting too much protein.
I do the gelatin PT once every 2 weeks because it is too strong for me to do weekly. When I was doing the Ion PT I did that once a week. I need a lot of protein, but there are people who need more then I do. You could try it once a week and see how it goes. If you get too much protein, just add back in more moisture in the form of a heavier conditioner or DT.

Alycat

Hi Pedaheh, I think you're right, more than once a week might be a bit much for a PT, so I'll just do it weekly for a while and see what happens - my cupboard is now well stocked with several sorts of gelatin. (First time in my life I've ever bought it because all my vegetarian friends avoid it like the plague, so I've never actually cooked with it!)

My hair is great today - I went to the hairdressers and the woman who washed it (not my usual hairdresser) has hair a bit like mine. She told me to use half my normal amount of conditioner but not rinse it out.

I know loads of people on here use leave-ins but I thought it would weigh my hair down - it had never ocurred to me to JUST use a leave-in without using a rinse-out first.

Anyway, I tried it and that, coupled with the PT, seems to have given me the sort of hair you all seem to have on here, but which had been eluding me - it's bouncy and curly but smooth - I've lost all my fluffy bits!

And, best of all, it doesn't feel as if I've got any product in it. I'm not a fan of the product-y feel and
I can't believe I've spent two years, and huge amounts of money, buying products when it seems all I really needed was to leave a tiny bit of conditioner in my hair!

But I don't think it would have worked so well without the PT. I've had fun experimenting and at least I've now got products which will add hold for windy/rainy days and party nights. Maybe now I can stop buying stuff....

IAgirl

How is it that I got away from this thread on PROTEIN? My hair soaks it up. Protein and humectants!
One week when I was working on the PT routine, I did 2 in one week with no problems, but after that it felt kind of drying so now no more than once per week.
Very interesting conditioner-applicaiton technique from your stylist -- glad you got rid of your fluffies without buying more products. Racerwife just posted also about using no rinse-out, but using some leave-in as being good for her low-porosity, fine hair. It seems to make sense to use less conditioner.

Kellycat

Alycat wrote: »

I know loads of people on here use leave-ins but I thought it would weigh my hair down - it had never ocurred to me to JUST use a leave-in without using a rinse-out first.

Anyway, I tried it and that, coupled with the PT, seems to have given me the sort of hair you all seem to have on here, but which had been eluding me - it's bouncy and curly but smooth - I've lost all my fluffy bits!

And, best of all, it doesn't feel as if I've got any product in it. I'm not a fan of the product-y feel and
I can't believe I've spent two years, and huge amounts of money, buying products when it seems all I really needed was to leave a tiny bit of conditioner in my hair!

But I don't think it would have worked so well without the PT. I've had fun experimenting and at least I've now got products which will add hold for windy/rainy days and party nights. Maybe now I can stop buying stuff....

This actually works very well for me too. I use a leave in but very rarely use a RO (only after the occasional low poo). Rinse outs were not working for me at all--they were making my hair too soft, but I have great luck using a leave in. Seems so counter intuitive, but it works! (And though I've had my HG routine down for ages now, I still can't stop buying product....)

pedaheh

Glad to hear your hair is bouncin' and bahavin'. :bunny:
Here is the thread IAgirl was referring to about hair that doesn't need much conditioner.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/119408-low-porosity-no-rinse-out.html

Alycat wrote: »

my cupboard is now well stocked with several sorts of gelatin.

Don't use the flavored gelatin, just the unflavored kind. I *think* the flavored kind can deposit color on light hair.

IAgirl

pedaheh wrote: »

Glad to hear your hair is bouncin' and bahavin'. :bunny:

So cute!

Alycat wrote: »

my cupboard is now well stocked with several sorts of gelatin.

Don't use the flavored gelatin, just the unflavored kind. I *think* the flavored kind can deposit color on light hair.

I do believe this is true -- I know you can dye yarn (natural fibers) with Kool-Aid (flavored drink mix with loads of artificial colors for the uninitiated), so I imagine flavored, colored gelatin would dye hair.

Every time I do the gelatin PT my husband teases me about using lime or grape or something delicious. Maybe another time.

Alycat

Thank you all for your replies!

Pedaheh, I haven't got flavoured gelatin - only powder and sheets, not sure we have flavours here, I've never seen any but I might be tempted to lick it off my hair if we did! Thank you for the link, I'm going off to read it in a minute.

IA Girl, isn't it your PT recipe I'm using? Meant to say thanks, it's simple and it works. It sounds like out hair is similar, mine loves humectants too - KY gel works the best of everything, feel a bit embarassed leaving it lying around though!

Kellycat, glad to know the leave-in thing works for you too. Rinse outs have always made my hair soft but its sooooo fluffy I have to use 'em. This way seems much better and it hasn't made my hair sticky and icky today (second day hair) like I thought it might.

Here's to another good hair day tomorrow!

IAgirl

Yes, that's my PT recipe. It was created as a stand-in for a very smelly (but strong) PT which a number of us liked, but also found too distasteful for regular use.

I haven't had the courage to try KY jelly. It seems like it would be sticky or heavy or... Hmm.
I agree, that's the sort of thing you wouldn't want next to the sink when your mom comes to visit:oops:

We probably do have similar hair from your description! Very cool. So now I must try the KY!

pedaheh

Funny story.
So, I took my dog into the vet for his shots. The vet asks if I have any questions. I'm reluctant to ask my question, but I know it will be well below zero on a regular basis soon. So I say to the pregnant vet and her male assistant "Ummm...My dog's penis doesn't fully retract." I could tell this wasn't a question she gets every day. She tells me "Well if you rub some KY around it, it should retract again. Do this once a day until it retracts" I try to ignore the screams of Nooooo!!! in my head and act normal. (Once it occurred to me I could use a Q-tip, the screaming subsided.)
I go back out to the waiting room and my Mom asks what the vet said. I tell her "I'll tell you in the car."
So I tell her in the car and she laughs really, really hard. Then I say: "Wait. It gets better. Do you know why I have KY? I bought it to put in my hair." It took her about 5 minutes of laughing before she could drive.

I hated KY for hair. (It took me a really long time to work up the courage to try it.) It was sticky and didn't do anything good for my hair. I can't remember for sure, but I believe it caused producty frizz. (looks like you rubbed your hair with a balloon) Lots of things cause producty frizz for me.

IAgirl

LOL Pedaheh! How we have to humble ourselves with our dogs at the vet. I know that this isn't an uncommon affliction.
I'm sure your pup would have been extra-happy to lick the KY right off when you weren't looking.

So, so funny.

Alycat

The things we have to do with KY gel - from dogs to hair!!

IA Girl - I use the tiniest amount, lots of people on here say they use palmfuls on their hair, but I only use about a fingertip amount (my hair's barely jaw-length and heavily layered, so a lot of it is shorter than that).

I put it on hair that's been squeezed dry from the shower, so wet but not dripping, scrunch dry in microfibre towel, then diffuse and I get smooth curls plus a lot of hold - more or less what other people seem to get with 'real' gel. But I can't really feel it in my hair at all, I only know it's there because it's smooth.

When I first used it my hair was a bit longer and I was drying it with a hotbrush (I know you're not supposed to but it was early CG-ing days for me) and I almost got ringlets - I'd never had those before.

With a diffuser the effect on the shape of the curls is less dramatic but the hair itself has no fluff - only problem is it looks so different to my usual hair people ask me what I've done - and I don't want to say I've used KY gel on it!

I find it works best if the weather's damp-ish - but it nearly always is here. And I have read that glycerin can fade dyed hair. I avoid it for the first week after I've had mine coloured just in case.

Just remembered - bought new tube of KY last week and it didn't work so well. I read the back of the packet and found it didn't have glycerin in it, only sorbitol (which I think is still a humectant). My hair was smooth-ish but had less hold.

Found a Boots own brand one which did have glycerin and that worked prefectly, so you may have to spend a furtive five minutes reading labels before you buy...!

Hope it works for you.