TSA scanners

xcptnlxcptnl Posts: 15,678Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
I do not understand why people are so freaked out about these scanners. Can someone explain this to me? These pictures (xray type pictures) are not 'sexy' in any way, you do not see the person's face. Do people think they are so HOT that TSA workers are going to be sharing or doing 'dirty' things using their scanner pictures?
Central Massachusetts

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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    nm
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Ineffective, and I do.not.believe.them when they say the levels of radiation are "safe". There is no such thing as safe radiation. Radiation is cumulative over a lifetime. For people who fly often, this represents a real health hazzard.
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    nm
  • xcptnlxcptnl Posts: 15,678Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Would you not do the scanner? Would you choose the manual pat down? Obviously they (TSA) make the rules and in order to fly you have to do one or the other.
    Central Massachusetts

    One good reason to only maintain a small circle of friends is that three out of four murders are committed by people who know the victim. ~George Carlin~

    In regards to Vagazzling: They just want to get into the goods without worrying about getting scratched up by fake crystals. ~spring1onu~
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,247Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I would still go through the scanner but to me it is an invasion of privacy. No I don't expect anyone to get their jollies off my tsa picture, it has nothing to do with that. Hell, I'd be flattered but that's not the point.
  • CynaminbearCynaminbear Posts: 4,476Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    We will not be flying. I have not committed a crime and should not be subjected to such an invasion.
    If I refuse, the pat down isn't simple, it's molestation. I refuse to allow my crotch to be grabbed and my breasts to be felt all around, up into my cleavage. I absolutely will not allow this to happen to my children.
    The TSA head said in an interview children under 13 will be exempt. Lie. There are videos of 5 and 6 year old children being molested by TSA. There's a video of a mother having to allow her 3-4 year old daughter to be molested by a TSA agent. They're also supposed to be done in a private area. Nope, another account of a person groped in public is out there. And the person doing the groping is supposedly of the same sex, yet again, another TSA lie.


    Please, someone tell me how the x-rays and molestation by a TSA agent will prevent more CARGO bombs?

    And please, try to convince me that if a terrorist puts a device into an orifice that TSA won't be doing random strip and cavity searches.

    When will it be enough? I say it was enough before we had to take off our shoes. It's absolutely ridiculous and I'd love to know who all the sheeple are that are just fine with all of these personal invasions?
    There's no such thing as global warming. Chuck Norris was cold so he turned up the sun.
  • HappycurlsHappycurls Posts: 188Registered Users
    This is a big issue for me as I travel extensively for my job, typically about once per week. It's a problem for all the reasons mentioned above:

    - Frequent radiation exposure
    - Ineffectiveness (they've already admitted the type of explosives the "underwear bomber" used would not show up on this scanner) Israeli security will not use these machines because they know they don't work.
    - They do NOT "randomly select" people. I travel with my male coworkers and I am always selected for the scanner, they've only been selected a few times, they are usually directed to the old fashioned metal detector. Suspicious...
    - Invasiveness of the pictures - your genitals are clearly visible, they do NOT have to be viewed by a member of the same sex and the pictures ARE saved
    - Invasiveness of the pat-down

    I refuse the scanner every time, so I have experienced the new pat-down. It is awkward and uncomfortable and I am not an overly shy or body conscious person. It is performed out in full view of everyone and they do touch your breasts, buttocks and vaginal area multiple times. I have never been offered to do the pat-down privately, though I would refuse anyway. I think it's important that everyone else see it and realize how far TSA is taking things as too many people are saying "Oh they run their hands over your legs, no big deal." No, this absolutely would be sexual assault in any other context. I wear slim-fitting, non-bulky clothing in which there is zero chance of concealing a weapon, yet this TSA person needs to check my inner thighs no less than 4 times? No.

    As there is no way for me to avoid air travel and keep my job, I will continue to refuse the scanner and opt for the pat-down every time. So far the TSA people have been relatively nice and professional, but I will absolutely file a complaint any time they are not or I feel they have gone to far.
  • webjockeywebjockey Posts: 2,786Registered Users
    We will not be flying. I have not committed a crime and should not be subjected to such an invasion.
    If I refuse, the pat down isn't simple, it's molestation. I refuse to allow my crotch to be grabbed and my breasts to be felt all around, up into my cleavage. I absolutely will not allow this to happen to my children.
    The TSA head said in an interview children under 13 will be exempt. Lie. There are videos of 5 and 6 year old children being molested by TSA. There's a video of a mother having to allow her 3-4 year old daughter to be molested by a TSA agent. They're also supposed to be done in a private area. Nope, another account of a person groped in public is out there. And the person doing the groping is supposedly of the same sex, yet again, another TSA lie.


    Please, someone tell me how the x-rays and molestation by a TSA agent will prevent more CARGO bombs?

    And please, try to convince me that if a terrorist puts a device into an orifice that TSA won't be doing random strip and cavity searches.

    When will it be enough? I say it was enough before we had to take off our shoes. It's absolutely ridiculous and I'd love to know who all the sheeple are that are just fine with all of these personal invasions?


    Where are these alleged videos? News story? Link?
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  • HappycurlsHappycurls Posts: 188Registered Users
    webjockey wrote: »
    We will not be flying. I have not committed a crime and should not be subjected to such an invasion.
    If I refuse, the pat down isn't simple, it's molestation. I refuse to allow my crotch to be grabbed and my breasts to be felt all around, up into my cleavage. I absolutely will not allow this to happen to my children.
    The TSA head said in an interview children under 13 will be exempt. Lie. There are videos of 5 and 6 year old children being molested by TSA. There's a video of a mother having to allow her 3-4 year old daughter to be molested by a TSA agent. They're also supposed to be done in a private area. Nope, another account of a person groped in public is out there. And the person doing the groping is supposedly of the same sex, yet again, another TSA lie.


    Please, someone tell me how the x-rays and molestation by a TSA agent will prevent more CARGO bombs?

    And please, try to convince me that if a terrorist puts a device into an orifice that TSA won't be doing random strip and cavity searches.

    When will it be enough? I say it was enough before we had to take off our shoes. It's absolutely ridiculous and I'd love to know who all the sheeple are that are just fine with all of these personal invasions?


    Where are these alleged videos? News story? Link?


    http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2010/11/15/tsa-pats-down-three-year-old/

    This is the one I've seen myself, though the video now appears to be blocked. This was a while ago though, before the new rules.The child is not being touched inappropriately, but as we all know, when children don't want to be touched, they will make a scene. It's just upsetting to see because the little girl is having a full on melt down and screaming "Don't touch me!" I don't have kids myself, but you spend their whole life teaching them they don't have to let anyone touch their body if they don't feel safe and then this... It is heartbreaking to me see the little girl so upset and the TSA person still touching her.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Happycurls wrote: »
    webjockey wrote: »
    We will not be flying. I have not committed a crime and should not be subjected to such an invasion.
    If I refuse, the pat down isn't simple, it's molestation. I refuse to allow my crotch to be grabbed and my breasts to be felt all around, up into my cleavage. I absolutely will not allow this to happen to my children.
    The TSA head said in an interview children under 13 will be exempt. Lie. There are videos of 5 and 6 year old children being molested by TSA. There's a video of a mother having to allow her 3-4 year old daughter to be molested by a TSA agent. They're also supposed to be done in a private area. Nope, another account of a person groped in public is out there. And the person doing the groping is supposedly of the same sex, yet again, another TSA lie.


    Please, someone tell me how the x-rays and molestation by a TSA agent will prevent more CARGO bombs?

    And please, try to convince me that if a terrorist puts a device into an orifice that TSA won't be doing random strip and cavity searches.

    When will it be enough? I say it was enough before we had to take off our shoes. It's absolutely ridiculous and I'd love to know who all the sheeple are that are just fine with all of these personal invasions?


    Where are these alleged videos? News story? Link?


    http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2010/11/15/tsa-pats-down-three-year-old/

    This is the one I've seen myself, though the video now appears to be blocked. This was a while ago though, before the new rules.The child is not being touched inappropriately, but as we all know, when children don't want to be touched, they will make a scene. It's just upsetting to see because the little girl is having a full on melt down and screaming "Don't touch me!" I don't have kids myself, but you spend their whole life teaching them they don't have to let anyone touch their body if they don't feel safe and then this... It is heartbreaking to me see the little girl so upset and the TSA person still touching her.



    The video was pulled probably because there is a very valid concern that it could be considered child pornography. It happened, and it's wrong, and I agree with Cynamin that I won't be allowing my children to be abused like that, so, we won't be flying for the forseeable future.
  • CynaminbearCynaminbear Posts: 4,476Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Here's a video that shows children getting the groping, around 1:34-1:48

    Where's the written policy that they'll exempt children? Even with a written policy, there will be agents who won't follow that and will do whatever they want.
    There's no such thing as global warming. Chuck Norris was cold so he turned up the sun.
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    nm
  • HappycurlsHappycurls Posts: 188Registered Users
    And this is probably just my frustration talking but... why do they make people hold their hands above their head, palms facing outward in these machines? It is very much a "surrender pose" and something I don't feel comfortable with the government getting masses of people to participate in. It would be just as easy to hold the arms raised slightly out to the side or something - the full body view would be the same, without the weird submission connotations of "put your hands up!"

    I don't know, the whole thing just feels like too much conditioning to me and I'm very uncomfortable with it.
  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 9,402Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I'm trying to understand all of this. From what I'm gathering is that the TSA scanner only shows what you may have hidden underneath your clothing. It shows all your genitals, on the outside, but not what could be hidden inside. If you don't get the TSA scanner then you get a pat down. Are they checking the "inside" body, as well? If this scanner could show what may be hidden inside, as well, maybe, just maybe it would be productive. I think the release about this one worker who was made fun of becuz of his small genitals lets us all know that these people are not being professional. People are people and I know from having friends who have worked for OB/GYNs this stuff doesn't stay in the office.

    You do know that there are people who will hide drugs, not only inside their bodies, but in babies' diapers. We live in a very weird world that is very unsafe, but let me tell you that if someone touched one of my children or grandchildren like what I've seen in the videos, it would not be OK with me. That's because I would not be bringing drugs or explosives onto an airplane and NO ONE violates my family.

    I thinking driving is a better alternative.
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Happycurls wrote: »
    And this is probably just my frustration talking but... why do they make people hold their hands above their head, palms facing outward in these machines? It is very much a "surrender pose" and something I don't feel comfortable with the government getting masses of people to participate in. It would be just as easy to hold the arms raised slightly out to the side or something - the full body view would be the same, without the weird submission connotations of "put your hands up!"

    I don't know, the whole thing just feels like too much conditioning to me and I'm very uncomfortable with it.



    We're systematically controlled at many levels in our society, and this is just one more level. We indoctrinate children to go along with authority from tiny...having them line up for school and become a number, forcing them to say the Pledge of Allegience with their hands over their hearts and pleding "under god", are all forms of control, and therefore submission. Having the hands in a different location doesn't make a difference to me in this instance. I won't submit to being digitally unclothed before TSA personnel, hands up or hands down. I won't risk my health with extra doses of unknown levels of radiation. They can pat me down. I don't care. I'm old enough not to feel too assaulted. They cannot pat down my children though. I won't allow my kids to be subjected to degradation like that.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Ineffective, and I do.not.believe.them when they say the levels of radiation are "safe". There is no such thing as safe radiation. Radiation is cumulative over a lifetime. For people who fly often, this represents a real health hazzard.
    Yeah, it's a really low amount of radiation, especially compared to how much radiation you get while flying in a plane. However, a major US union for pilots and flight attendants is protesting the use of the machines, because they'd have to be scanned very frequently.



    How do we know it's truly a low level of radiation? Because "they" say so? I don't believe them. It wouldn't be the first time Americans have been lied to by government agencies about the dangers of supposedly safe procedures. Fluroscopy was once thought to be safe. X-rays were used for shoe fittings. Mammography has recently (just this past summer) been found to be 30 times higher than originally thought. Who's to say the same won't be found of these full-body scanners.
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    nm
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,120Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Ineffective, and I do.not.believe.them when they say the levels of radiation are "safe". There is no such thing as safe radiation. Radiation is cumulative over a lifetime. For people who fly often, this represents a real health hazzard.
    Yeah, it's a really low amount of radiation, especially compared to how much radiation you get while flying in a plane. However, a major US union for pilots and flight attendants is protesting the use of the machines, because they'd have to be scanned very frequently.



    How do we know it's truly a low level of radiation? Because "they" say so? I don't believe them. It wouldn't be the first time Americans have been lied to by government agencies about the dangers of supposedly safe procedures. Fluroscopy was once thought to be safe. X-rays were used for shoe fittings. Mammography has recently (just this past summer) been found to be 30 times higher than originally thought. Who's to say the same won't be found of these full-body scanners.

    +1 The brain tumor surgery I had a year ago was the result of "safe" radiation I had as a child. That "safe" radiation isn't used on children anymore but too late for me. Radiation is cumulative. If I have to fly I will have the pat down. None of this makes any sense since it doesn't work anyway.
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  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    I'm flying tomorrow and will opt for the pat down. I've had it before and didn't find it to offensive. I didn't like it but it was no big deal.

    I agree that the scanners won't work anyway.
  • BekkaPooBekkaPoo Posts: 3,861Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I would hope people boycott flying in planes (if at all possible) until they change the rules back to something sane. And if you do have to get the pat down, maybe act like you are really enjoying it.. then see if the TSA wants to continue with this riduculous policy... :lol:
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  • CGNYCCGNYC Posts: 4,938Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Didn't we find out last year that CAT scans have a LOT more radiation than "they" had been telling us?

    And weren't there several news stories last week about how oh yeah, btw, as it turns out they do in fact store the images?

    I have had some very good and very poor experiences with TSA. Some people are very VERY professional and try to get everyone through with as little trauma as possible. Some people are a s s h o l e s and very much enjoy this little bit of power they have.

    My biggest objection is that it just gives the appearance of security and makes no actual difference at all.

    You can't just keep throwing technology at a problem and hoping that fixes it.
  • BefrizzledBefrizzled Posts: 3,854Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    I'll have to travel by plane soon, and I'm planning to be groped instead of scanned. I want people to really be able to see that either option is a personal violation.

    I'm flying in January, and that's my plan, too. SO's 13-year-old is about to fly to visit us, and it disgusts me that we actually have to talk to her beforehand to prepare her for what might happen at the airport this time if she gets selected for a pat-down.
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  • xcptnlxcptnl Posts: 15,678Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I will not forgo vacations. I guess I am just not that outraged by it. I would have been screwed during the revolution. I think I am just too apathetic about lots of stuff.
    Central Massachusetts

    One good reason to only maintain a small circle of friends is that three out of four murders are committed by people who know the victim. ~George Carlin~

    In regards to Vagazzling: They just want to get into the goods without worrying about getting scratched up by fake crystals. ~spring1onu~
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    nm
  • SCGSCG Posts: 5,416Registered Users
    There's no way you could get me to go through one of those things. I'd much rather have the pat down, although I wouldn't be happy about that either. I won't forgo flying, because there are just some places you can't get to by car... But I will not go through an x-ray scanner. Call me crazy, but I don't want people that I don't know seeing me naked, and I'd really rather not be exposed to the unnecessary radiation. Obviously, being felt up by someone I don't know isn't exactly preferable either, but at least there wouldn't be any lasting effects to that...

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  • nynaeve77nynaeve77 Posts: 7,135Registered Users Curl Novice
    We're just planning to drive for our travel needs for awhile. There is no way I'd let them take naked pictures of me. If my own husband can't, then neither can the TSA. :tongue2:
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  • CynaminbearCynaminbear Posts: 4,476Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Body scans do get saved
    Yes, the article is about a courthouse and not an airport, but it proves the images do get saved, and can be leaked to the internet and anyone else who cares to have them.

    I really hope the ACLU is able to bring suit and succeed in getting these scans and searches outlawed.
    There's no such thing as global warming. Chuck Norris was cold so he turned up the sun.
  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Posts: 4,162Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Ineffective, and I do.not.believe.them when they say the levels of radiation are "safe". There is no such thing as safe radiation. Radiation is cumulative over a lifetime. For people who fly often, this represents a real health hazzard.

    This is my personal issue. I travel for work (fly) at least 2-3 times a month. That's a LOT of freaking radiation.
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  • CynaminbearCynaminbear Posts: 4,476Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    The video of the 3 year old At least it was a woman TSA person doing it to the child. Be warned, if you're sensitive to a terrified crying child you can hear the terror in the child's cries.
    There's no such thing as global warming. Chuck Norris was cold so he turned up the sun.
  • NejNej Posts: 2,444Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It sounds like this is what my friends had done when we flew to Nevada a few months ago ... they were just told to stand in this machine with their arms up. Nobody told them what it was or gave them any information at all about rights etc. It was a very bizarre experience and it outrages me that they had no idea what was being done to them or why.
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