Marah pls read :)

dc05dc05 Posts: 275Registered Users
:)
:blob8:24 Months Post Relaxer :blob8:

*Length : BSB (Below Shoulder Blade)/ Brastrap Length
*Long term goal: TB length (stretched of course)
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Comments

  • Cali ChikCali Chik Posts: 1,494Registered Users
    Aint nobody finna read all that sh*t... Post the cliffnotes.:)
    subbrock wrote: »
    - don't let everybody elses long straight weave bum you out. don't let other people's big/long natural hair bum you out either. embrace what you have and rock it with confidence, because that's the only way you'll be happy. and whether you realize it or not you are somebody's influence. show them what it truly means to be confident.

    www.lifestarbeauty.com
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  • dc05dc05 Posts: 275Registered Users
    This guy can probably articulate what I am trying to say better :laughing8:

    http://realmessiah.askdrbrown.org/

    take care :)

    Also anyone who wants to study this on their own and isn't opposed to reading the NT a great place to start would be the book of Hebrews, it talks about Jesus as the High Priest and discusses how some things (the law and sacrifices) of the OT were shadows and signs pointing to reality and fulfillment of Jesus and His accomplishments in the NT. :)
    :blob8:24 Months Post Relaxer :blob8:

    *Length : BSB (Below Shoulder Blade)/ Brastrap Length
    *Long term goal: TB length (stretched of course)
    *Short tern goal: Mid-back length (stretched -- by June 2011) / Shoulder length (FULL) curly:glasses2:
  • murrrcatmurrrcat Posts: 9,596Registered Users
    Cali Chik wrote: »
    Aint nobody finna read all that sh*t... Post the cliffnotes.:)

    :laughing9::laughing8::laughing8:
    tumblr_mji9u1Fwza1rh1wv4o1_500.jpg
  • dc05dc05 Posts: 275Registered Users
    Cali Chik wrote: »
    Aint nobody finna read all that sh*t... Post the cliffnotes.:)
    Hahaha...yes ma'am. HOLD ON :)
    :blob8:24 Months Post Relaxer :blob8:

    *Length : BSB (Below Shoulder Blade)/ Brastrap Length
    *Long term goal: TB length (stretched of course)
    *Short tern goal: Mid-back length (stretched -- by June 2011) / Shoulder length (FULL) curly:glasses2:
  • Cali ChikCali Chik Posts: 1,494Registered Users
    dc05 wrote: »
    Cali Chik wrote: »
    Aint nobody finna read all that sh*t... Post the cliffnotes.:)
    Hahaha...yes ma'am. HOLD ON :)
    Much appreciated.
    subbrock wrote: »
    - don't let everybody elses long straight weave bum you out. don't let other people's big/long natural hair bum you out either. embrace what you have and rock it with confidence, because that's the only way you'll be happy. and whether you realize it or not you are somebody's influence. show them what it truly means to be confident.

    www.lifestarbeauty.com
    Hate me? Love me? then Follow me! www.twitter.com/vidastarr


  • dc05dc05 Posts: 275Registered Users
    :)
    :blob8:24 Months Post Relaxer :blob8:

    *Length : BSB (Below Shoulder Blade)/ Brastrap Length
    *Long term goal: TB length (stretched of course)
    *Short tern goal: Mid-back length (stretched -- by June 2011) / Shoulder length (FULL) curly:glasses2:
  • CocoTCocoT Posts: 5,330Registered Users
    dc05 wrote: »
    Hello,

    I just wanted to comment on a comment that you made in the Kimmaytube thread... I also ask that you read what I have here carefully :D :)

    Note: I intended to PM you but it was clearly too LONG LOL... and this is not supposed to be like a debate or anything I just wanted you to read it... dont take this as me *challenging you* just giving another perspective... but we can definitely converse in private after you read...IF YOU WANT OF COURSE. Also this thread is not meant to engage anyone else, I posted it HERE because I know she will see it here and the PM would have been like a billion parts LOL, I do not want to go off topic in the hair board... if anyone wants to discuss anything with me pls feel free to PM me! :) If you are of another religion or atheist pls do not take this as a prompting for debate, it is not, its for Marah... this again is not intended to offend ANYONE *religious or not* but meant to offer a different perspective that is not often discussed.

    It was regarding Christians and Jews being polar opposites. This message is not being sent to evoke any sort of debate or discussion nor is it intended to be disrespectful towards you and your religious beliefs. I would however, like to offer you a different perspective other than the one you presented in the thread.

    I am a Christian and was born and raised in a christian home.. so the following is from that perspective. I am what you could probably call a conservative evangelical christian... however I disagree with the notion that Jews and Christians are polar opposites.. here is why.

    I (along with many others of the Christian faith) view the bible (in its entirety including the Torah, minor and major prophets...and the new testament) as the redemptive history of mankind. The bible (NT and OT) is a continuous story and is not seen - for example - as though the NT and OT are telling two completely different stories. The OT is a foreshadow of the realities of the NT. Many aspects of the Jewish religion (as outlined in the Torah, not necessarily speaking on any Jewish commentary) are retained and fulfilled in the NT.

    Just a little background to start us out..

    The bible begins in Genesis and accounts the fall of the human race into sin. In this state of sinfulness mans close union with God has been broken. God is Just and Holy and therefore cannot tolerate sin. His Holiness is opposed to sin and His Justice rightly condemns it. God declared to both Adam and Eve that the day they disobeyed his command, they would surely die. When this happened Adam plunged the entirety of the human race into a state of sinfulness and spiritual death.

    God also determined that the only acceptable payment for sin is death. Note in genesis how after Adam and Eve sinned they were given a "covering" (from animal skins), however in order for this to happen, the life of an animal was required. This is a foreshadow of the sacrificial system that was later put in place by God. In order for God to show that man is unrighteous and sinful and gulity before a Just and Holy God, he instituted animal sacrifices, which served as a testament to the necessity of atonement for sin. This sacrificial system itself was a foreshadow of the Ultimate Sacrifice that would be made on behalf of the human race by the Jesus whom Christians consider the Son of David.

    Some similarities...

    An example; Every year the High Priest would go before God's Presence and make atonement for the sin of Israel. This is also a foreshadow of Jesus, who is considered a High Priest, who made the Ultimate Sacrifice of atonement for the human race.

    Between Judaism and Christianity, the issue remains the same: Man is sinful and guilty before a Just and Holy God.
    Between Judaism and Christianity,remedy is presented the same: the only way to reconcile to God is through the death of the innocent.

    Consider another similarity; When the sacrifices were being conducted, the animal that was to be slain, had hands placed on it symbolizing the transfer of the sins of the person(s) to the animal, rendering the animal *gulity*. This is also a foreshadow of what happened with Jesus. The sins of humanity were transferred (or as Christians say "imputed") to Jesus while he was on the cross serving as the Ultimate Sacrifice.

    A similar example; consider the story of Abraham and his son... Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son unto God ... this was a foreshadow of what God would ultimately do with His Son Jesus. Abraham was about to sacrifice his son when God provided a substitute; a lamb caught in the thorns. The same would be with Jesus. Jesus is God's substitute for the human race.

    The law that was given by Moses to Israel is yet a nother foreshadow to the realities of Jesus revealed in the NT. The law was given to point to Jesus as the savior of the World. How so? The law points out a NEED for a savior. Mankind, because of his sinfulness, cannot spiritually please God with obedience. The sinful nature inherited from our forefather Adam, prevents us from doing so. Our sinful nature is such that it has rendered us with an inclination towards sin. We cannot live in perfect obedience. Thus we cannot on our own please God.

    The law is a reminder of this, we cannot keep the commandments apart from the supernatural work of God's Spirit on our hearts after being born again. The fact that we cannot keep the commandments points us to One who was able to fulfill the law in its entirety, Jesus. This is how Jesus is the spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the World. His obedience to the Law renders him a perfect substitute for all of humanity.

    Christianity is not about completely turning Judaism upside down on its head..Christianity is a FULFILLMENT of Judaism. Several foreshadows of sacrifice and atonement were completed and fully revealed in the NT in Jesus. Jesus Himself never intended to overthrow Judaism or change it, but he came to show us its proper fulfillment. Several times Jesus is recorded as having the utmost respect for Judaism and the Law of God. He says that not one jot or iota of the Law will pass away until everything is fulfilled. Jesus also stated that He did not come to abolish the law and the prophets but to FULFILL THEM. And so He did (or at least that's what Christians believe). Jesus also is popular for blasting the religious Jewish leaders...this was not an opposition to their belief system but to their hypocrisy. Jesus is recorded as saying (in referring to the Jewish leaders); Do as they SAY not as they DO. Do as they say in regards to the law, not as they do, in regards to their hypocrisy.

    There are so many ways in which Christianity mirrors Judaism... I will be honest and say I do not have exhaustive knowledge on the subject, but if you are interested (just from curiosity, not trying to force a conversion or anything) I can give you some resources.

    One the the major evidences (provided by Christians) would be the fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies by Jesus. It is of course debatable on what is considered a Messianic prophecy and if He really fulfilled them or not etc...that is something that I cannot discuss with you. That would be left between you and God to discuss (if you please of course). I do however encourage you, by your own will, to take a look at Isaiah 53. One of the most clear and concise (IMHumbleOpinion) messianic prophecies fulfilled by Christ.

    Just wanted you to experience another perspective. I do not consider Christianity and Judaism polar opposites. Somewhat different in their expression YES. Opposite, quite the contrary. This is just my opinion: Judaism (from my understanding) and Christianity do indeed have historical distinctive and separations...however if you examine the Holy Scriptures you will see that they are more alike then unalike. They have been historically put against each other as opposite but if you want, I def encourage you to see how they are very similar. Of course THE difference is that Christians are persons who accept Jesus as the Messiah of the world. Jesus to US is the Messiah of Israel...but Israel (per the new testament) includes Jews and Gentiles. And so we still hold that the only way for ANYONE to be saved or reconciled to God is through His sacrificial death... this applies to Jews and gentiles alike. If a Jewish person accepts Jesus as the Messiah, this does not mean the person has to forsake being Jewish...this person can still hold to cultural distinctives. They just accept Christ as their personal sin substitution and understand that there is nothing you can do (observing the law) that will save you because in order to be saved by observing the law you would have to do it perfectly from beginning to end, because God is Perfect and demands Holiness. Persons who have accepted Christ as the Messiah rely (through faith) on His perfection and righteousness. He again attained this by doing what we cannot, obeying the law perfectly.

    Gentiles have been grafted into the family tree. We are described as wild olive branches being grafted into the Natural tree of Israel.


    Hope you don't mind me sharing my perspective. Have a great weekend!
    Hmm, I wouldn't necessarily say that Christianity is a fulfillment of Judaism but I can see why you would say it is for lack of a better term. Overall though, I concur. Well said
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    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
    -Albert Einstein
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  • dc05dc05 Posts: 275Registered Users
    delete :)
    :blob8:24 Months Post Relaxer :blob8:

    *Length : BSB (Below Shoulder Blade)/ Brastrap Length
    *Long term goal: TB length (stretched of course)
    *Short tern goal: Mid-back length (stretched -- by June 2011) / Shoulder length (FULL) curly:glasses2:
  • moosegrl_86moosegrl_86 Posts: 403Registered Users
    Cali Chik wrote: »
    Aint nobody finna read all that sh*t... Post the cliffnotes.:)

    :laughing8::laughing8::laughing8: :laughing9: :laughing5: :laughing3: :laughing1: :sign5:
    Whoop whoop! :hello1:
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  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Well I certainly read your posts. BTW, long posts NEVER bother me. I love to read so whenever you want to send or post long to me.. I will indeed read it so feel free. And since I've given you that respect..I'm hoping you'll give me the same and read my rather verbose post. :)

    And please know that I am not trying to offend you either but we have a PROFOUNDLY different understanding on this subject. So what I say may not sit well with you...at all.

    So here goes:


    My background in religion:
    I've practiced Apologetics for more than 13 years, I have a Comparative Religion degree, I've written extensive position papers on Judaism and Christianity and I am considering writing a book on the subject. I have studied the historical background on both religions for years. I've also had indepth discussions with various Rabbis as well as Christian ministers from different denominations within Christianity and still do often for many years now. I have an extensive library where I own many books on Judiasm and Christianity (as well as Islam for that matter). And I own several versions of the Christian bible as well as various Tanakh and many tractates from the Talmud. Believe it or not..I have copies of some texts from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    I've been a Jew since the day I was born and was raised in a Jewish home. So let's just say.. I'm on my A game when it comes Christianity AND Judaism. I've studied other religions but my expertise lies in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.

    Replacement Theology:
    What you have presented is a variation on Replacement Theology. I've argued against this in many debates and discussions. So I've heard it all. And I'll tell you without a shadow of doubt that it is impossible (not improbable) ..I said IMPOSSIBLE that Christianity could be the fulfillment of Judaism in ANY stretch of the imagination. Replacement Theology is Christianity's way of supplanting Jews and considering themselves "thee chosen" and us Jews that don't convert to the Christian way will be lost (IE: end up in Hell). Most Jews that I know are HIGHLY offended by that notion reguardless of how "nice" and "non-offensive" it's meant. Particularly, when so many Jews were killed during pogroms, Crusades, forced conversions, laws forcing us to not be allowed to practice our faith including forcing us to do and eat things we consider non-kosher all in the name of Christianity. We (religious Jews) are usually outraged on the idea that such a thing could be any fulfillment of our own religion. It's like saying we deserved the Shoah for pete's sakes.

    I don't see any sort of connect between Judaism and Christianity besides to say Christianity stole our Tanakh and mistranslated, misread it, and certainly misinterpreted to support their religious agenda.

    Why Jesus is Irrelevant to Judaism:
    There is no way Jesus would have taught the things Christians claim he did if he was an actual practicing Jew because it would have been against Torah. So that right there disqualifies him from fulfilling ANYTHING the Kohen Gadol (High Priest) did in the Tanakh. This veiled idea that Jesus takes the place of the Kohen Gadol and so that makes us not polar opposite is absurd at best. Frankly the theology behind that is anti-Jewish. But this idea doesn't surprise me considering ALL of the "Church Fathers" were anti-Jewish. I know a lot of Christians don't understand that because it's something that Pastor so and so doesn't say during Sunday morning sermonettes or "Father" doesn't say when he gives his homily during Mass.

    If Jesus was a Jew that was the fulfillment of everything that his own people loved and supported in the times of Moshe and all the prophets before him..why on earth would he EVER support such things that Christianity teaches concerning Jews, Torah, and the ways that his supposed Father (God himself) dictated ? Um he wouldn't and no practicing Jew would. So he couldn't have been a fulfillment of anything Jewish. That right there is frankly more than enough to disqualify him and Christianity from being a fullfilment of Judaism.

    In Response to your points about why we aren't polar opposites and Jesus as Messiah:
    Jesus didn't fulfill any of the JEWISH requirements for being the Messiah or a Jewish Messiah. So it's not possible for him to have been foreshadowed in any aspect of the Tanakh. Perhaps he filled the CHRISTIAN requirements (and I'm certainly aware of the Tanakh verses Christians take out of context and mistranslate and call "Messianic prophecies"), but he did not fulfill ours (Jews) and we do not, will not now or ever recognize him as the Jewish Messiah because he doesn't fit the criteria.

    He can't even be considered because with all due respect..if he ever existed at all.. he's dead now. And yes, I know Christians believe he rose again on the 3rd day and so forth and for a sec let's say that's the truth..well he sure hasn't shown in any fashion that he's the Jewish Messiah..especially not with what's going on in Israel right now which as the Jewish Messiah.

    Two points you made that I can point to quickly to tell you are incorrect and it's these:

    You said:
    • Between Judaism and Christianity, the issue remains the same: Man is sinful and guilty before a Just and Holy God.
    • Between Judaism and Christianity, the remedy is presented the same: the only way to reconcile to God is through the death of an innocent sacrifice.
    Judaism does not view sin in the same way Christians do. The Jewish Supreme One is NOT the Christian concept of "god". So we don't even have the same "God". We don't even believe in the concept of "original sin" for pete's sake. We don't look at man as this guilty wholly sinful being that is just guilty and can do nothing to change that and needs some sacrificial man to die for us so we can attain eternal life. In Judaism we believe in idividual accountability. Jews are held accountable for what they do otherwise our God wouldn't be a just one in our view.

    We (Jews) don't believe the Torah has been fulfilled and or done away with and if you look at the New Testament you'll see it doesn't even teach such a thing. And no, it is not only through the death of an innocent that Jews have to be reconciled to the Jewish God.

    And with all due respect the Abraham and Isaac anology.. Christians have misinterpreted that for YEARS. There is a reason why Avaham didn't kill Yitzchak in the JEWISH SCRIPTURES and it wasn't because it was any forshadowing of Jesus' death or anything about him or needing a human sacrifice like Jesus. First of all, Judaism abhors human sacrifice and in our belief so does our Jewish God. Judaism has ALWAYS been against human (especially child) sacrifice because the nations around them were practicing it at the time and our Jewish God told us not to do what the heathen nations do. Avaham was given a examination concerning his obedience and faithfulness to the one true God, the Jewish God that is why he was told to bind Yitzchak. Notice, he was stopped by the "voice". He was not permitted to harm his son.

    So right there the two major things that you seem to think we have in common.. we don't.

    I'm always up for discussing religion.. always. It's one of my greatest passions in life. So I didn't mind your post nor did I mind reading it. Given, I'm not so sure this was the best way to approach me on a hair forum. But you took it here..so I figured I'd finish it here.
    tumblr_m9jonzYZmu1re7hjjo1_250.jpg
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    Hey Marah!

    Sorry to intrude. Are you by any chance Sfardi? Is your mother born Jewish? Is your father Jewish? Ger? I would love to talk to someone that is Jewish and has curls galore just like me. Do you speak hebrew? I recognize your name Mizrahi which is why I am asking. Hope I am not being too personal. Toda.
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    Well I certainly read your posts. BTW, long posts NEVER bother me. I love to read so whenever you want to send or post long to me.. I will indeed read it so feel free. And since I've given you that respect..I'm hoping you'll give me the same and read my rather verbose post. :)

    And please know that I am not trying to offend you either but we have a PROFOUNDLY different understanding on this subject. So what I say may not sit well with you...at all.

    So here goes:


    My background in religion:
    I've practiced Apologetics for more than 13 years, I have a Comparative Religion degree, I've written extensive position papers on Judaism and Christianity and I am considering writing a book on the subject. I have studied the historical background on both religions for years. I've also had indepth discussions with various Rabbis as well as Christian ministers from different denominations within Christianity and still do often for many years now. I have an extensive library where I own many books on Judiasm and Christianity (as well as Islam for that matter). And I own several versions of the Christian bible as well as various Tanakh and many tractates from the Talmud. Believe it or not..I have copies of some texts from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    I've been a Jew since the day I was born and was raised in a Jewish home. So let's just say.. I'm on my A game when it comes Christianity AND Judaism. I've studied other religions but my expertise lies in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.

    Replacement Theology:
    What you have presented is a variation on Replacement Theology. I've argued against this in many debates and discussions. So I've heard it all. And I'll tell you without a shadow of doubt that it is impossible (not improbable) ..I said IMPOSSIBLE that Christianity could be the fulfillment of Judaism in ANY stretch of the imagination. Replacement Theology is Christianity's way of supplanting Jews and considering themselves "thee chosen" and us Jews that don't convert to the Christian way will be lost (IE: end up in Hell). Most Jews that I know are HIGHLY offended by that notion reguardless of how "nice" and "non-offensive" it's meant. Particularly, when so many Jews were killed during pogroms, Crusades, forced conversions, laws forcing us to not be allowed to practice our faith including forcing us to do and eat things we consider non-kosher all in the name of Christianity. We (religious Jews) are usually outraged on the idea that such a thing could be any fulfillment of our own religion. It's like saying we deserved the Shoah for pete's sakes.

    I don't see any sort of connect between Judaism and Christianity besides to say Christianity stole our Tanakh and mistranslated, misread it, and certainly misinterpreted to support their religious agenda.

    Why Jesus is Irrelevant to Judaism:
    There is no way Jesus would have taught the things Christians claim he did if he was an actual practicing Jew because it would have been against Torah. So that right there disqualifies him from fulfilling ANYTHING the Kohen Gadol (High Priest) did in the Tanakh. This veiled idea that Jesus takes the place of the Kohen Gadol and so that makes us not polar opposite is absurd at best. Frankly the theology behind that is anti-Jewish. But this idea doesn't surprise me considering ALL of the "Church Fathers" were anti-Jewish. I know a lot of Christians don't understand that because it's something that Pastor so and so doesn't say during Sunday morning sermonettes or "Father" doesn't say when he gives his homily during Mass.

    If Jesus was a Jew that was the fulfillment of everything that his own people loved and supported in the times of Moshe and all the prophets before him..why on earth would he EVER support such things that Christianity teaches concerning Jews, Torah, and the ways that his supposed Father (God himself) dictated ? Um he wouldn't and no practicing Jew would. So he couldn't have been a fulfillment of anything Jewish. That right there is frankly more than enough to disqualify him and Christianity from being a fullfilment of Judaism.

    In Response to your points about why we aren't polar opposites and Jesus as Messiah:
    Jesus didn't fulfill any of the JEWISH requirements for being the Messiah or a Jewish Messiah. So it's not possible for him to have been foreshadowed in any aspect of the Tanakh. Perhaps he filled the CHRISTIAN requirements (and I'm certainly aware of the Tanakh verses Christians take out of context and mistranslate and call "Messianic prophecies"), but he did not fulfill ours (Jews) and we do not, will not now or ever recognize him as the Jewish Messiah because he doesn't fit the criteria.

    He can't even be considered because with all due respect..if he ever existed at all.. he's dead now. And yes, I know Christians believe he rose again on the 3rd day and so forth and for a sec let's say that's the truth..well he sure hasn't shown in any fashion that he's the Jewish Messiah..especially not with what's going on in Israel right now which as the Jewish Messiah.

    Two points you made that I can point to quickly to tell you are incorrect and it's these:

    You said:
    • Between Judaism and Christianity, the issue remains the same: Man is sinful and guilty before a Just and Holy God.
    • Between Judaism and Christianity, the remedy is presented the same: the only way to reconcile to God is through the death of an innocent sacrifice.
    Judaism does not view sin in the same way Christians do. The Jewish Supreme One is NOT the Christian concept of "god". So we don't even have the same "God". We don't even believe in the concept of "original sin" for pete's sake. We don't look at man as this guilty wholly sinful being that is just guilty and can do nothing to change that and needs some sacrificial man to die for us so we can attain eternal life. In Judaism we believe in idividual accountability. Jews are held accountable for what they do otherwise our God wouldn't be a just one in our view.

    We (Jews) don't believe the Torah has been fulfilled and or done away with and if you look at the New Testament you'll see it doesn't even teach such a thing. And no, it is not only through the death of an innocent that Jews have to be reconciled to the Jewish God.

    And with all due respect the Abraham and Isaac anology.. Christians have misinterpreted that for YEARS. There is a reason why Avaham didn't kill Yitzchak in the JEWISH SCRIPTURES and it wasn't because it was any forshadowing of Jesus' death or anything about him or needing a human sacrifice like Jesus. First of all, Judaism abhors human sacrifice and in our belief so does our Jewish God. Judaism has ALWAYS been against human (especially child) sacrifice because the nations around them were practicing it at the time and our Jewish God told us not to do what the heathen nations do. Avaham was given a examination concerning his obedience and faithfulness to the one true God, the Jewish God that is why he was told to bind Yitzchak. Notice, he was stopped by the "voice". He was not permitted to harm his son.

    So right there the two major things that you seem to think we have in common.. we don't.

    I'm always up for discussing religion.. always. It's one of my greatest passions in life. So I didn't mind your post nor did I mind reading it. Given, I'm not so sure this was the best way to approach me on a hair forum. But you took it here..so I figured I'd finish it here.

    I am Jewish as well. I read all of what you wrote Marah. I agree Christianity is not Judaism. Christianity is a derivative of Judaism. Thousands of years ago, Judaism branched out into hundreds of sects. As for Jesus being a messiah. We as the Jewish race do not know if he is or is not. We choose to say he is not to protect our beliefs that the messiah must follow a few conditions. Be of the lineage of Dovid and Yosef and the messiah must not have any children. In our religion we also believe it is possible for there to be two moshiachs. Moshiach Ben Yosef, Moshiach Ben Dovid. Hope this helps both of you.

    Experience: I read and speak fluent hebrew. I read fluent aramaic. Born Jewish.
  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    And no Christianity is not an extension of Judaism either or we would recognize it as such. It's a totally different religion with a different end game.

    The destruction of the Temple certainly doesn't prove that Jesus is needed for ANYTHING concerning atonement for sins. There were only very specific sins that animal sacrificed covered in Judaism anyway. Repentance is essential. In Judaism sacrifice was NEVER the sole way to obtain forgiveness.

    Furthermore, according to the prophet Yermeyahu the Temple will be rebuilt, and sacrifice will be reinstituted. Do does Dani'El.

    So if Jesus was the fulfillment of all of that what are the Jewish prophets liars now and the Temple won't be rebuilt and sacrifice started up again ?

    Furthermore, Tehillim (Psalms in the Christian Bible) tells us that our prayers are sufficent for forgiveness. Which clearly means the Temple need not be built in order to do this... Did David lie ?

    The prophet Hoshea relates a similiar idea when he says "take your words and ask for forgiveness for all iniquity." Did the prophet over step by saying this ?

    Even King Shlomo, after he built the Temple stated that one could repent when away from the Temple through prayer. So did he make that up ?

    And people that believe the Tanakh is not just some "Old Testament" are supposed to suddenly believe everything that it says is incorrect and fullfilled in some man named Jesus ?

    The idea of that is absurd.

    In Judaism forgivenss is obtained today through tzedekah (charity), true repentence (not just being sorry meaning turning fully away from that sinful action), and our prayers to be atoned. And we knew that from the get go considering sacrifce covered certain things, not all reguarding sin. And Jesus doesn't come into the picture at all nor is he needed. Furthermore, in Judaism the way our prayers our designed is to mimic ritual sacrifice practices.

    So springing up Jesus to be any fulfillment is a moot point, really.
    tumblr_m9jonzYZmu1re7hjjo1_250.jpg
  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I am Jewish as well. I read all of what you wrote Marah. I agree Christianity is not Judaism. Christianity is a derivative of Judaism. Thousands of years ago, Judaism branched out into hundreds of sects. As for Jesus being a messiah. We as the Jewish race do not know if he is or is not. We choose to say he is not to protect our beliefs that the messiah must follow a few conditions. Be of the lineage of Dovid and Yosef and the messiah must not have any children. In our religion we also believe it is possible for there to be two moshiachs. Moshiach Ben Yosef, Moshiach Ben Dovid. Hope this helps both of you.

    Experience: I read and speak fluent hebrew. I read fluent aramaic. Born Jewish.

    I'm having one HECK of a time believing that a Jew would say such thing. We know for SURE he's not the Moshiach because he didn't fulfill the criteria to be the Jewish Messiah. ANY Jew worth his weight will tell you that.

    And I'm having a hard time finding it plausible that you just jumped out of the wood work to post those two posts on a hair board. So I call foul big time and I can't believe you are a Jew saying such a thing. I'm not buying you are Jewish for a second.

    Christianity is no derevative of Judaism. Christianity HIJACKED our Scriptures to legitimize itself. A deriviative would be like me getting grape juice from grapes. Christianity ain't our grape juice..never has been ..never will be.

    And Judaism never branched out into any hundreds of sects.. that's false. Where in the world did you even GET that from ? There are a few "movements" in Judaism..but hundreds of sects ? SINCE WHEN ? Christianity is the one with over 30 thousand denominations.. not us.

    To be perfectly honest.. you sound like a Messianic right now so I am highly suspicious.. which is NOT a Jewish religion although it's called "Messianic Judaism" another version of "Jews for Jesus" trying to trick Jews into converting. A lot of Christians that practice Messianic Judaism (a christian misnomer name religion) often front like they are Jews only to be found out when they come out with crazy notions that Jesus could possibly be the Jewish Messiah and we just hold onto the beliefs we do..what to be spiteful. Oh and plenty of Messies (as we Jews call them) are now studying Aramaic and Hebrew to further supplant the Jewish people.

    And you KNOW I'm suspect when your 2nd post on this entire board..is that.

    Oh and NEWSFLASH..there is no "we the Jewish race". Being a Jew is belonging to an ETHNICITY, if you wanna get real technical you could say an ethno-religious group. Jews are not a race.

    I would think an actual Jew would know that.
    tumblr_m9jonzYZmu1re7hjjo1_250.jpg
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    Christanity is a derivative of Judaism as is Islam. Mohamed learned how to twist Judaism from the information who sought out from his Jewish uncle. Christianity came about thousands of years ago when Chaverim started creating different sects to go against the Rabbonim.

    I agree repentence in Judaism is done through tzedaka (charity) and teshuva (repenting) as well as davening (prayer) and completing mitzvohs (laws). Some of us have animal sacrafice,called Kaparot :) Others will wait until the third temple is built again by hakohanim.
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    Chas V'shalom. I am not Messianic. They are a chillul HaShem. I saw the hair boards for a long time now and read all the posts and wants to add my two shekles. I grew up frum my entire life. May I ask what kind of Jew are you. What level of hashgacha do you practice? Are you sefardi or a ger? Is your mother born Jewish?
  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Hey Marah!

    Sorry to intrude. Are you by any chance Sfardi? Is your mother born Jewish? Is your father Jewish? Ger? I would love to talk to someone that is Jewish and has curls galore just like me. Do you speak hebrew? I recognize your name Mizrahi which is why I am asking. Hope I am not being too personal. Toda.

    So you expect me to believe you are Jewish and my name is Mizrahi and you still ask me am I Sephardi ? If you recognize Mizrahi.. you should already know whether I'm Sephardi or not, nu ?

    So who you tryin' to fool ?
    tumblr_m9jonzYZmu1re7hjjo1_250.jpg
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    I am Jewish as well. I read all of what you wrote Marah. I agree Christianity is not Judaism. Christianity is a derivative of Judaism. Thousands of years ago, Judaism branched out into hundreds of sects. As for Jesus being a messiah. We as the Jewish race do not know if he is or is not. We choose to say he is not to protect our beliefs that the messiah must follow a few conditions. Be of the lineage of Dovid and Yosef and the messiah must not have any children. In our religion we also believe it is possible for there to be two moshiachs. Moshiach Ben Yosef, Moshiach Ben Dovid. Hope this helps both of you.

    Experience: I read and speak fluent hebrew. I read fluent aramaic. Born Jewish.

    I'm having one HECK of a time believing that a Jew would say such thing. We know for SURE he's not the Moshiach because he didn't fulfill the criteria to be the Jewish Messiah. ANY Jew worth his weight will tell you that.

    And I'm having a hard time finding it plausible that you just jumped out of the wood work to post those two posts on a hair board. So I call foul big time and I can't believe you are a Jew saying such a thing. I'm not buying you are Jewish for a second.

    Christianity is no derevative of Judaism. Christianity HIJACKED our Scriptures to legitimize itself. A deriviative would be like me getting grape juice from grapes. Christianity ain't our grape juice..never has been ..never will be.

    And Judaism never branched out into any hundreds of sects.. that's false. Where in the world did you even GET that from ? There are a few "movements" in Judaism..but hundreds of sects ? SINCE WHEN ? Christianity is the one with over 30 thousand denominations.. not us.

    To be perfectly honest.. you sound like a Messianic right now so I am highly suspicious.. which is NOT a Jewish religion although it's called "Messianic Judaism" another version of "Jews for Jesus" trying to trick Jews into converting. A lot of Christians that practice Messianic Judaism (a christian misnomer name religion) often front like they are Jews only to be found out when they come out with crazy notions that Jesus could possibly be the Jewish Messiah and we just hold onto the beliefs we do..what to be spiteful. Oh and plenty of Messies (as we Jews call them) are now studying Aramaic and Hebrew to further supplant the Jewish people.

    And you KNOW I'm suspect when your 2nd post on this entire board..is that.

    Oh and NEWSFLASH..there is no "we the Jewish race". Being a Jew is belonging to an ETHNICITY, if you wanna get real technical you could say an ethno-religious group. Jews are not a race.

    I would think an actual Jew would know that.

    Hello Marah. Don't be upset. I mean we race as us sefardi, ashkenazi, geruit, not race like Black, White. Sorry I speak bad english. Thank you for the correction. As for your doubt of me being Jewish. I am Jewish, my mother is Jewish, my mother's mother is Jewish. Grew up in a Jewish community my whole life.

    Again what kind of Jew are you? Is your mother born Jewish? Are you a baal teshuvah? Are you a ger?
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    Hey Marah!

    Sorry to intrude. Are you by any chance Sfardi? Is your mother born Jewish? Is your father Jewish? Ger? I would love to talk to someone that is Jewish and has curls galore just like me. Do you speak hebrew? I recognize your name Mizrahi which is why I am asking. Hope I am not being too personal. Toda.

    So you expect me to believe you are Jewish and my name is Mizrahi and you still ask me am I Sephardi ? If you recognize Mizrahi.. you should already know whether I'm Sephardi or not, nu ?

    So who you tryin' to fool ?

    Sfardi do not use the word nu. It is a yiddishe term. Are you half sfardi? Are both your parents Sfardi. I ask because it is a screen name.
  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Christanity is a derivative of Judaism as is Islam. Mohamed learned how to twist Judaism from the information who sought out from his Jewish uncle. Christianity came about thousands of years ago when Chaverim started creating different sects to go against the Rabbonim.

    I agree repentence in Judaism is done through tzedaka (charity) and teshuva (repenting) as well as davening (prayer) and completing mitzvohs (laws). Some of us have animal sacrafice,called Kaparot :) Others will wait until the third temple is built again by hakohanim.

    Like I said.. it's not possible for Christianity to be a derivative of Judaism.

    And Muhammad didnt learn Judaism from his uncle. Where did you get that from ? Muhammed communed among Jews in Medina and Mecca and learned during those journeys. Futhermore, it was his wife Khadijah's cousin Waraqah that was studied in the Hebrew Scriptures as well as Christianity since he converted to it and related certain things to Muhammad concerning Judaism and Christianity. It wasn't Muhammad's uncle. Muhammad's family were pagans before the birth of Islam.. his uncle wasn't a Jew.

    And Christianity is supposedly 2000 years old.. no Chaverim created it to go against the Rabbis. That's ridiculous.

    Ahh.. you reference Kaparot..someone has been reading. LOL! But I wouldn't call it a "sacrifice" that's for sure and you do realize many Jew oppose this practice because it's considered contrary, nu ? So why even bring that up ?
    tumblr_m9jonzYZmu1re7hjjo1_250.jpg
  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Chas V'shalom. I am not Messianic. They are a chillul HaShem. I saw the hair boards for a long time now and read all the posts and wants to add my two shekles. I grew up frum my entire life. May I ask what kind of Jew are you. What level of hashgacha do you practice? Are you sefardi or a ger? Is your mother born Jewish?

    If you've been reading these boards as long as you say.. you should know my background.
    tumblr_m9jonzYZmu1re7hjjo1_250.jpg
  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I am Jewish as well. I read all of what you wrote Marah. I agree Christianity is not Judaism. Christianity is a derivative of Judaism. Thousands of years ago, Judaism branched out into hundreds of sects. As for Jesus being a messiah. We as the Jewish race do not know if he is or is not. We choose to say he is not to protect our beliefs that the messiah must follow a few conditions. Be of the lineage of Dovid and Yosef and the messiah must not have any children. In our religion we also believe it is possible for there to be two moshiachs. Moshiach Ben Yosef, Moshiach Ben Dovid. Hope this helps both of you.

    Experience: I read and speak fluent hebrew. I read fluent aramaic. Born Jewish.

    I'm having one HECK of a time believing that a Jew would say such thing. We know for SURE he's not the Moshiach because he didn't fulfill the criteria to be the Jewish Messiah. ANY Jew worth his weight will tell you that.

    And I'm having a hard time finding it plausible that you just jumped out of the wood work to post those two posts on a hair board. So I call foul big time and I can't believe you are a Jew saying such a thing. I'm not buying you are Jewish for a second.

    Christianity is no derevative of Judaism. Christianity HIJACKED our Scriptures to legitimize itself. A deriviative would be like me getting grape juice from grapes. Christianity ain't our grape juice..never has been ..never will be.

    And Judaism never branched out into any hundreds of sects.. that's false. Where in the world did you even GET that from ? There are a few "movements" in Judaism..but hundreds of sects ? SINCE WHEN ? Christianity is the one with over 30 thousand denominations.. not us.

    To be perfectly honest.. you sound like a Messianic right now so I am highly suspicious.. which is NOT a Jewish religion although it's called "Messianic Judaism" another version of "Jews for Jesus" trying to trick Jews into converting. A lot of Christians that practice Messianic Judaism (a christian misnomer name religion) often front like they are Jews only to be found out when they come out with crazy notions that Jesus could possibly be the Jewish Messiah and we just hold onto the beliefs we do..what to be spiteful. Oh and plenty of Messies (as we Jews call them) are now studying Aramaic and Hebrew to further supplant the Jewish people.

    And you KNOW I'm suspect when your 2nd post on this entire board..is that.

    Oh and NEWSFLASH..there is no "we the Jewish race". Being a Jew is belonging to an ETHNICITY, if you wanna get real technical you could say an ethno-religious group. Jews are not a race.

    I would think an actual Jew would know that.

    Hello Marah. Don't be upset. I mean we race as us sefardi, ashkenazi, geruit, not race like Black, White. Sorry I speak bad english. Thank you for the correction. As for your doubt of me being Jewish. I am Jewish, my mother is Jewish, my mother's mother is Jewish. Grew up in a Jewish community my whole life.

    Again what kind of Jew are you? Is your mother born Jewish? Are you a baal teshuvah? Are you a ger?

    AGAIN..there is no Jewish race and even if you can't speak English well you know better than that, if you are indeed Jewish.

    And I was BORN to Jewish parents which makes me Jewish automatically. Period.
    tumblr_m9jonzYZmu1re7hjjo1_250.jpg
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    went to private chat
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    went to private chat
  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Hairtalkhair,

    This is really a HAIR BOARD. I already told you that I was born to Jewish parents and you can either take that or leave it.

    And you said HUNDREDS of sects.. it's common sense there were sects..but hundreds..um no. No rabbi told you any such a thing about HUNDREDS.

    I'm just still finding it suspect that you suddenly register and start posting because of this conversation if you are so interested in hair..yet you made not one post concerning hair..you see this and jump right in.

    As a matter of fact this WHOLE THREAD is looking suspect to me now.. it's looking like a big set up from the get go. Like this couldn't be addressed in PM.. yeah I'm buying that alright.
    tumblr_m9jonzYZmu1re7hjjo1_250.jpg
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    I sent Pm Marah. I have a strong interest in hair.Want me to post? I like reading about hair. I am Jewish and this post peaked my interest.

    Christianity is not opposite of Judaism if it is a derivative of it. If the word Mar is a derivative or Marah, it is not opposite.
  • hairtalkhairhairtalkhair Posts: 10Registered Users
    Hairtalkhair,

    This is really a HAIR BOARD. I already told you that I was born to Jewish parents and you can either take that or leave it.

    And you said HUNDREDS of sects.. it's common sense there were sects..but hundreds..um no. No rabbi told you any such a thing about HUNDREDS.

    I'm just still finding it suspect that you suddenly register and start posting because of this conversation if you are so interested in hair..yet you made not one post concerning hair..you see this and jump right in.

    As a matter of fact this WHOLE THREAD is looking suspect to me now.. it's looking like a big set up from the get go. Like this couldn't be addressed in PM.. yeah I'm buying that alright.

    בוקר טוב מארה ,כל טוב
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    dc05 wrote: »
    Christianity is not about completely turning Judaism upside down on its head..Christianity is a FULFILLMENT of Judaism.
    Okay, I don't think that you're trolling or anything. But let it be known that if you wanna enrage Jews, this is how you do it!!

    Everything about Judaism you wrote in your first post completely turns Judaism upside down on its head. Why? Because you were really talking about Christianity. We Jews have our own interpretations of our own scriptures.

    Jews don't believe that you need blood to atone for sins! Here's how you atone in Judaism. You acknowledge to yourself that you did something wrong, and sincerely resolve never to do it again (even though you'll probably do it again). Then, you sincerely apologize to the person you hurt, up to three times if necessary. Hopefully, the hurt person will accept your apology. But regardless, there is no blood or death involved!
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    So you expect me to believe you are Jewish and my name is Mizrahi and you still ask me am I Sephardi ? If you recognize Mizrahi.. you should already know whether I'm Sephardi or not, nu ?
    Okay, I don't want to get into this fight. But that actually made me laugh out loud.

    Anyway, I'm confused by the statement that Christianity is not derived from Judaism. My understanding is that there were a lot of Abrahamic sects in the time of Jesus, including Jews, Gnostics, and Samaritans. Christianity started out as one of those sects. Christianity and modern rabinnic Judaism certainly share a common ancestor, don't they?
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    בוקר טוב מארה ,כל טוב
    Oh thank God I could understand that (even without vowels!!). I was afraid I'd have to give up my Jew card!
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