Hair Products and Their Bases

1679111219

Comments

  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Curl Neophyte Posts: 6,446Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ellepixie wrote: »
    Wow I need to try that AloeThix base...didn't someone say that the Whipped Gelly was similar to AV Pur Whipped Gelly?

    Yes it is and I would be happy to send you some to try if you want. It's a little better IMO (likely from the acrylates).

    Lay it on me, boo! (LOL you really do have everything, huh?)

    Regarding the PJ thing - I agree with you, I think PJs buy things because they want their hair to look the best, and personally I get some kind of PJ high if I can get something in bulk rather than 8 oz for $12 from a "handmade" company. It's like when you get designer clothing on sale, lol!
    BC'ed: 26 Dec 09
    YouTube
    Grand Duchess Fierce Freckles, Mistress of the Mighty Snap and Doyenne of the Potent Products Pavane in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
  • mariag002mariag002 Curl Neophyte Posts: 3,557Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    mariag002 wrote: »

    afrosheenqueen - I am BostonMaria over at LHCF and I mentioned something similar to your comment
    Someone mentioned in the LCHF thread that it was probably because they don't order the bulk bases until they have the money from the sale so they know how much to order. Then when people ask they attribute the wait time to "making the products by hand."
    The ladies over there pretty much had a freakin fit whenever people (including me) would get mad at Hairveda for sending products 4 weeks after we paid for our items. If you search the old "I'm in love with Hairveda" thread from Nov-Dec 2008 these women were e-ganging up on us LMFAO about how we have to wait, these items are hand made, we either need to have patience or buy stuff from CVS. It really turned me off and I stopped ordering from Hairveda. I did place an order in Sept and I will finally receive my products this week, exactly a month later.

    I found out about the bases about 9 months ago and made a decision to just make my own stuff at home. It curbed my PJism big time. If items are really made at home I will wait, no problem. But once I found out at the reason why it would take so long is because these items needed to be placed with a warehouse first and THEN my stuff would be shipped... just doesn't sit well with me.

    I didn't realize how much faith people put into these companies. You couldn't even question them? That's sad. :sad5:

    I take the advice from Ronald Reagan for most things: "Trust, but Verify" LOL

    Read from this page forward:

    http://www.longhaircareforum.com/hair-care-tips-product-review-discussion/256691-hairveda-products-amazing-27.html from post 1043 (that's me!) and down
    - Maria

    Big Chop: 9/23/07
    Relaxer free for almost 5 years!

  • QVCDivaQVCDiva Posts: 1,329Registered Users

    A huge part of being a PJ is perceiving that there are differences in products and that you are somehow taking your hair to the next level getting something "new", or trying something "new". The way this is going, there is no such thing as new and you just may be better off figuring out what you like, buying the base, etc and calling it a day. Why even have the middle man? Why give up the control?

    Not asking you, but just sayin'.
    I would think PJism is more of a massive purchase of new products to experiment with... I rarely notice PJs mixing their own (this is my thinking so please PJs don't harp on me). Then again I may be wrong.
    The middle man definitely isn't necessary now with the exposure, but again, bulk product purchases aren't in a PJ's repertoire, IMO!!! *I don't want this to become an argument over PJs now, so please let's not take this to another level*

    Definitely don't see this as an argument, but respectfully speaking, I think you have it all wrong. PJ's buy EVERYTHING, in bulk or otherwise if it's a good deal, they tried it, like it, and wanna keep it in rotation. The perceived difference as I said before, is more the issue than the quantity.

    To each their own though.

    As a reformed PJ (conditioners excluded), I have to agree with Naturalista's take on it. There's a perceived difference between products.
    Last Relaxer: 09/19/08
    BC: 01/30/09
    Misc: 1st time going natural was '94-'98; 2nd time - '99-2003; This time I will not go back to relaxers.
    http://public.fotki.com/QVCDiva/
  • mariag002mariag002 Curl Neophyte Posts: 3,557Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ellepixie wrote: »
    ellepixie wrote: »
    Wow I need to try that AloeThix base...didn't someone say that the Whipped Gelly was similar to AV Pur Whipped Gelly?

    Yes it is and I would be happy to send you some to try if you want. It's a little better IMO (likely from the acrylates).

    Lay it on me, boo! (LOL you really do have everything, huh?)

    Regarding the PJ thing - I agree with you, I think PJs buy things because they want their hair to look the best, and personally I get some kind of PJ high if I can get something in bulk rather than 8 oz for $12 from a "handmade" company. It's like when you get designer clothing on sale, lol!

    Off Topic: I'm watching your Afroveda YT video on your blog. Love your curls and hair color! That's the color I want for my hair, but I'm too chicken to dye it.
    - Maria

    Big Chop: 9/23/07
    Relaxer free for almost 5 years!

  • LhoreSpencerLhoreSpencer Posts: 474Registered Users
    QVCDiva wrote: »
    I would think PJism is more of a massive purchase of new products to experiment with... I rarely notice PJs mixing their own (this is my thinking so please PJs don't harp on me). Then again I may be wrong.
    The middle man definitely isn't necessary now with the exposure, but again, bulk product purchases aren't in a PJ's repertoire, IMO!!! *I don't want this to become an argument over PJs now, so please let's not take this to another level*

    Definitely don't see this as an argument, but respectfully speaking, I think you have it all wrong. PJ's buy EVERYTHING, in bulk or otherwise if it's a good deal, they tried it, like it, and wanna keep it in rotation. The perceived difference as I said before, is more the issue than the quantity.

    To each their own though.

    As a reformed PJ (conditioners excluded), I have to agree with Naturalista's take on it. There's a perceived difference between products.
    I guess I thought it was more of a quantity issue, based on pictures I've seen. Now that I think of it, for me it was more of a search for the right products. #kanyeshrug
    FdQlm4.png
    Falling deeper and deeper and deeper in :love4: with my beautiful mixture of springy, tight coils and super duper kinks.

    *SIGH* Alas, I've come to accept my shrinkage and fairy knots :angry7:

    There are no magic potions, concoctions, elixirs, or pills for hair growth, weight loss, or financial independence... so stop looking for a quick fix!!!
  • coilynappcoilynapp Posts: 4,233Registered Users
    divadee62 wrote: »
    ___________________________________________________
    Hairveda SitriNillah Deep Conditioning Masque

    Ingredients: Water, Coconut oil, Castor Oil, Cetyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Steryl Alcohol, Stearakloniun Chloride, Dimethyl Stearamine, Orange oil, Orange Extract, Vanilla Extract, Lactic Acid, Germall Plus, Fragrance. 16oz. jar.


    is Crafters Choice™ Hair Conditioner Concentrate with the unbolded items "added" by BJ.
    Click here for link to product

    Ingredients: Cetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Dimethyl Stearamine, Lactic Acid
    ______________________________________________________
    Hairveda Moist Conditioner 24/7
    Ingredients: Water Coconut oil, Hydronated Vegetable oil, Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Dimethyl Stearamine, Lactic Acid, Germall Plus, Fragrance. 16oz. bottle

    is Also Crafters Choice™ Hair Conditioner Concentrate with the unbolded items "added" by BJ. Click here for link to product

    Ingredients: Cetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Dimethyl Stearamine, Lactic Acid
    _____________________________________________________
    Hairveda Amla Shampoo

    Ingredients: Aloe barbadensis (Aloe) Juice, Sodium Cocopolyglucoside Tartrate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Cocopolyglucoside Citrate, Vegetable Glycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Hydrolized Wheat Proteins, Shikakai Oil, Vitis vinifera (Grapeseed) Oil, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Oil, Simmondsia chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Avena sativa (Oat) Extract, Calcium d-Pantothenate (Pro-Vitamin B5), Vitis vinifera (Grape) Extract, Bambusa glaucescens (Bamboo) Extract, Tetrasodium Edta, Xanthan Gum (Polysaccharide Gum), Citric Acid, Frangrance.

    is the Essential Wholesale Amber Sulfate-Free Shampoo Base.

    Looks like she is leaving out a number of the real ingredients and of course switching the order around.

    http://www.essentialwholesale.com/Amber-Sulfate-Free-Shampoo
    Ingredients/Tech Specs: Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Lavendula angustifolia (Lavender) Distillate, Anthemis nobilis (Roman Chamomile) Distillate, Sodium Cocopolyglucoside Tartrate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Cocopolyglucoside Citrate, Kosher Vegetable Glycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Calcium d-Pantothenate (Pro-Vitamin B5), Xanthan Gum (Polysaccharide Gum), Hydrolized Wheat Proteins, Avena sativa (Oat) Extract, Simmondsia chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Rosa mosqueta (Rosehip) Seed Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Salix nigra (Black Willowbark) Extract, Edta, Citric Acid
    ______________________________________________________
    Hairveda Whipped Green Tea Butter

    Ingredients include:
    Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Powder, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Fragrance. 6oz. [/font]
    [/font]


    is Crafters Choice™ Green Tea Butter Blend
    Click here to see productIngredients: Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil (and) Camellia Sinensis Leaf Powder(and) Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil.
    ________________________________________________________
    Hairveda UrbanAroma Pur Buttercream
    http://hairveda.com/UrbanAroma.aspx
    Pur ButterCreme
    Ingredients: Water, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter), Glyceryl Stearate, Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Sorbitol, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil**, Linum Usitatissimum Seed Extract**, Punica Granatum Extract**, Olea Europaea Fruit Extract**, Laminaria Digitata Extract**, Morinda Citrifolia Extract**, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract**, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Tocopheryl, Phospholipids, Tocopheryl Acetate, Retinyl Palmitate, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Ascorbic Acid, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Seed Extract, Xanthum Gum, Disodium EDTA.
    ** Organic


    Is Body Butter from Majestic Mountain Sage
    http://www.thesage.com/catalog/Moisturizers.html
    Ingredients: Water, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Cyclopentasiloxane, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter), Glyceryl Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Sorbitol, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil**, Linum Usitatissimum Seed Extract**, Punica Granatum Extract**, Olea Europaea Fruit Extract**, Laminaria Digitata Extract**, Morinda Citrifolia Extract**, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract**, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Tocopheryl, Phospholipids, Tocopheryl Acetate, Retinyl Palmitate, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Ascorbic Acid, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Seed Extract, DMDM Hydantoin, PEG-150 Distearate, Xanthum Gum, Disodium EDTA.
    ** Denotes organic material

    Ok. Let's back up a little bit. There are some things here that cannot be from a base (at least if the makers are being honest about disclosing ingredients). Let's be clear, you can have two conditioners having similar ingredients without it being from a base. For example, I can make [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Oyin-Honey-Hemp-Conditioner-p-860.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=oyin-honey-hemp-conditioner]oyin's honey hemp conditioner[/buylink], ingredient for ingredient. I won't have used a base. Right now, I have all the raw ingredients (with a few exceptions) for a lot of the bases being mentioned in this thread. If I make a conditioner similar to that base, I won't have used that base. Of course, it might not feel the same as said base, but you get the point.

    So here with hairveda, when she is using Crafters Choice™ Hair Conditioner Concentrate, she is using raw ingredients to make a conditioner. Just like one would use BTMS. This is not a base, rather a blend of emulsifiers and conditioner waxes that is used to make a conditioner or moisturizer. They have been blended perfectly to make a concentrate that is melted down in the heated oil phase and then mixed with water for an emulsion. Again, just like you would use BTMS (which itself is a conditioning emulsifying blend). So in this case, BJ is not using a base, rather an emulsifying and conditioning blend. I have all these ingredients and I can make a blend myself, but it is more convenient to get it all blended at once so you just measure how much you need of one ingredient, rather than 5 ingredients. I think whenever you see "concentrate", you should know that these are raw ingredients (just like butters and oils are). Also if a base includes something like lavender distilate and the company's product does not include this, unless the company is not disclosing all ingredients, they cannot be using said base because a base is already an emulsified product, you cannot remove something from a base, you can only add things to it. I think some of the hairveda stuff here is really not from a base.

    When you see one ingredient list with a few ingredients, and then you are comparing to said company's product with a lot more ingredients, this cannot be from a base. You can only add a few ingredients to a base (about 5% of the total weight batch, I think I mentioned this before) and it's a perfect balance. I have never worked with bases, but I'm sure that it's more complicated than it seems. It certainly isn't made from scratch though...LOL (unless it's the maker of the base)

    Just wanted to not get too carried away in this thread. Carryon

    ETA: I have never used any hairveda, I'm just educating :)
    th?id=H.4940802350254088&pid=1.7&w=183&h=144&c=7&rs=1
  • mariag002mariag002 Curl Neophyte Posts: 3,557Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    QVCDiva wrote: »

    Definitely don't see this as an argument, but respectfully speaking, I think you have it all wrong. PJ's buy EVERYTHING, in bulk or otherwise if it's a good deal, they tried it, like it, and wanna keep it in rotation. The perceived difference as I said before, is more the issue than the quantity.

    To each their own though.

    As a reformed PJ (conditioners excluded), I have to agree with Naturalista's take on it. There's a perceived difference between products.
    I guess I thought it was more of a quantity issue, based on pictures I've seen. Now that I think of it, for me it was more of a search for the right products. #kanyeshrug

    As far as bases, which I've purchased before, you have to get the right one because sometimes they can be very BLAH You need to know what right amount of fragrance, oils, preservative to add or otherwise its a waste. When I first started making my own it was hit or miss. I had to throw away a few batches because I made too much and it went bad. Oh and there were times when I'd add ayurvedic oils (ex: Neem Oil) and my conditioner would smell like butt LOL no amount of fragrance could save that sucka. That might be unappealing to some people. I am a very busy person and I don't always have time to create a deep conditioner, gel, leave-in, etc.. so there are times where I have no choice but to order online.
    - Maria

    Big Chop: 9/23/07
    Relaxer free for almost 5 years!

  • afrosheenqueenafrosheenqueen Curl Connoisseur Posts: 5,400Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    mariag002 wrote: »

    LMAO @ "Hairveda Gangsters". They should've been on the payroll. :lol:

    It's a little sad to me now to read all the comments from people excited to get these handmade products that "are worth the wait" because she's creating them from scratch and worrying about preservations issues and such. :disgust:
    4a/b Texlaxed hair w/ highlights. Medium texture & high porosity.

    HG's: CJ Daily Fix, Bobeam Cheris Hibiscus shampoo bar, KC Spiral Spritz, Knot Today, CJ Rehab, KBB LL Hair Mask, Cassia, KCCC, oil blend of Avocado, Camellia, Jojoba, & Meadowfoam oils

    SL APL BSL MBL
  • KeenyliciousKeenylicious Curl Neophyte Posts: 2,320Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    i REALLLY want some of that butter madness... but the camden grey site came up on ripoff report... hmm idk. i wonder if any other site sells it.
    tumblr_lr2y4sUYNh1qb5gkjo1_250.gif
  • mariag002mariag002 Curl Neophyte Posts: 3,557Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    keenyme wrote: »
    i REALLLY want some of that butter madness... but the camden grey site came up on ripoff report... hmm idk. i wonder if any other site sells it.

    Really? What did it say? I never had a problem with this vendor and I ordered from them twice.

    The butter madness smells VERY good. I wish I had some to send to you guys, but I used it all up.
    - Maria

    Big Chop: 9/23/07
    Relaxer free for almost 5 years!

  • mariag002mariag002 Curl Neophyte Posts: 3,557Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    - Maria

    Big Chop: 9/23/07
    Relaxer free for almost 5 years!

  • KeenyliciousKeenylicious Curl Neophyte Posts: 2,320Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    hmm never mind. that "ripoff" was actually the customers' fault.

    back to ordering my butter madness and peppermint oil!!! :afro:
    tumblr_lr2y4sUYNh1qb5gkjo1_250.gif
  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Curl Connoisseur Posts: 4,162Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    You took the words out of my mouth. Some of the "bases" for hairveda that are posted are not really bases but are emulsifier blends. There is a difference. Also to my knowledge hairveda has never claimed to be handmade....have they?

    I'm on my iPhone so I can't go look.
    coilynapp wrote: »
    divadee62 wrote: »
    ___________________________________________________
    Hairveda SitriNillah Deep Conditioning Masque

    Ingredients: Water, Coconut oil, Castor Oil, Cetyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Steryl Alcohol, Stearakloniun Chloride, Dimethyl Stearamine, Orange oil, Orange Extract, Vanilla Extract, Lactic Acid, Germall Plus, Fragrance. 16oz. jar.


    is Crafters Choice™ Hair Conditioner Concentrate with the unbolded items "added" by BJ.
    Click here for link to product

    Ingredients: Cetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Dimethyl Stearamine, Lactic Acid
    ______________________________________________________
    Hairveda Moist Conditioner 24/7
    Ingredients: Water Coconut oil, Hydronated Vegetable oil, Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Dimethyl Stearamine, Lactic Acid, Germall Plus, Fragrance. 16oz. bottle

    is Also Crafters Choice™ Hair Conditioner Concentrate with the unbolded items "added" by BJ. Click here for link to product

    Ingredients: Cetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Dimethyl Stearamine, Lactic Acid
    _____________________________________________________
    Hairveda Amla Shampoo

    Ingredients: Aloe barbadensis (Aloe) Juice, Sodium Cocopolyglucoside Tartrate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Cocopolyglucoside Citrate, Vegetable Glycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Hydrolized Wheat Proteins, Shikakai Oil, Vitis vinifera (Grapeseed) Oil, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Oil, Simmondsia chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Avena sativa (Oat) Extract, Calcium d-Pantothenate (Pro-Vitamin B5), Vitis vinifera (Grape) Extract, Bambusa glaucescens (Bamboo) Extract, Tetrasodium Edta, Xanthan Gum (Polysaccharide Gum), Citric Acid, Frangrance.

    is the Essential Wholesale Amber Sulfate-Free Shampoo Base.

    Looks like she is leaving out a number of the real ingredients and of course switching the order around.

    http://www.essentialwholesale.com/Amber-Sulfate-Free-Shampoo
    Ingredients/Tech Specs: Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Lavendula angustifolia (Lavender) Distillate, Anthemis nobilis (Roman Chamomile) Distillate, Sodium Cocopolyglucoside Tartrate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Cocopolyglucoside Citrate, Kosher Vegetable Glycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Calcium d-Pantothenate (Pro-Vitamin B5), Xanthan Gum (Polysaccharide Gum), Hydrolized Wheat Proteins, Avena sativa (Oat) Extract, Simmondsia chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Rosa mosqueta (Rosehip) Seed Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Salix nigra (Black Willowbark) Extract, Edta, Citric Acid
    ______________________________________________________
    Hairveda Whipped Green Tea Butter

    Ingredients include:
    Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Powder, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Fragrance. 6oz. [/font]
    [/font]


    is Crafters Choice™ Green Tea Butter Blend
    Click here to see productIngredients: Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil (and) Camellia Sinensis Leaf Powder(and) Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil.
    ________________________________________________________
    Hairveda UrbanAroma Pur Buttercream
    http://hairveda.com/UrbanAroma.aspx
    Pur ButterCreme
    Ingredients: Water, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter), Glyceryl Stearate, Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Sorbitol, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil**, Linum Usitatissimum Seed Extract**, Punica Granatum Extract**, Olea Europaea Fruit Extract**, Laminaria Digitata Extract**, Morinda Citrifolia Extract**, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract**, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Tocopheryl, Phospholipids, Tocopheryl Acetate, Retinyl Palmitate, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Ascorbic Acid, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Seed Extract, Xanthum Gum, Disodium EDTA.
    ** Organic


    Is Body Butter from Majestic Mountain Sage
    http://www.thesage.com/catalog/Moisturizers.html
    Ingredients: Water, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Cyclopentasiloxane, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter), Glyceryl Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Sorbitol, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil**, Linum Usitatissimum Seed Extract**, Punica Granatum Extract**, Olea Europaea Fruit Extract**, Laminaria Digitata Extract**, Morinda Citrifolia Extract**, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract**, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Tocopheryl, Phospholipids, Tocopheryl Acetate, Retinyl Palmitate, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Ascorbic Acid, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Seed Extract, DMDM Hydantoin, PEG-150 Distearate, Xanthum Gum, Disodium EDTA.
    ** Denotes organic material

    Ok. Let's back up a little bit. There are some things here that cannot be from a base (at least if the makers are being honest about disclosing ingredients). Let's be clear, you can have two conditioners having similar ingredients without it being from a base. For example, I can make [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Oyin-Honey-Hemp-Conditioner-p-860.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=oyin-honey-hemp-conditioner]oyin's honey hemp conditioner[/buylink], ingredient for ingredient. I won't have used a base. Right now, I have all the raw ingredients (with a few exceptions) for a lot of the bases being mentioned in this thread. If I make a conditioner similar to that base, I won't have used that base. Of course, it might not feel the same as said base, but you get the point.

    So here with hairveda, when she is using Crafters Choice™ Hair Conditioner Concentrate, she is using raw ingredients to make a conditioner. Just like one would use BTMS. This is not a base, rather a blend of emulsifiers and conditioner waxes that is used to make a conditioner or moisturizer. They have been blended perfectly to make a concentrate that is melted down in the heated oil phase and then mixed with water for an emulsion. Again, just like you would use BTMS (which itself is a conditioning emulsifying blend). So in this case, BJ is not using a base, rather an emulsifying and conditioning blend. I have all these ingredients and I can make a blend myself, but it is more convenient to get it all blended at once so you just measure how much you need of one ingredient, rather than 5 ingredients. I think whenever you see "concentrate", you should know that these are raw ingredients (just like butters and oils are). Also if a base includes something like lavender distilate and the company's product does not include this, unless the company is not disclosing all ingredients, they cannot be using said base because a base is already an emulsified product, you cannot remove something from a base, you can only add things to it. I think some of the hairveda stuff here is really not from a base.

    When you see one ingredient list with a few ingredients, and then you are comparing to said company's product with a lot more ingredients, this cannot be from a base. You can only add a few ingredients to a base (about 5% of the total weight batch, I think I mentioned this before) and it's a perfect balance. I have never worked with bases, but I'm sure that it's more complicated than it seems. It certainly isn't made from scratch though...LOL (unless it's the maker of the base)

    Just wanted to not get too carried away in this thread. Carryon

    ETA: I have never used any hairveda, I'm just educating :)
    Wanna talk products? Come Join us here!
    http://www.facebook.com/PlatinumPJ

    Extremely thick, kinky curls/coils that have a mind of thier own!!!!
    _____________________________
    I like my men and my hair....KINKY!!!!
    _____________________________
    Wanna save $10 off your next purchase at vitacost.com? Use my referal code (click the link)!


    12459237.png
    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter
  • mariag002mariag002 Curl Neophyte Posts: 3,557Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    NCC I think you're right. One of those were BMT (sp??) flakes and needs water added so that's not a base.
    - Maria

    Big Chop: 9/23/07
    Relaxer free for almost 5 years!

  • divadee62divadee62 Curl Neophyte Posts: 115Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Not sure about Jessicurl WDT, from what I can remember during the different searches, I haven't seen anything close to the listed ingredients for WDT.

    But at this point, it wouldn't surprise me if it was in fact a base.
    mariag002 wrote: »
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    And so it began...Relaxer-free since 2003
    Naturally OUT since Sept. 21, 2008
    Products in current rotation:
    Terressentials Left Coast Lemon, Oyin Honey Dew,Hairveda Cocoshasta Oil,Darcy's Botanicals MVSC
    11/20/11 Currently testing out Living Proof's RESTORE Deep Conditioner.
  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Curl Connoisseur Posts: 4,162Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Charzboss wrote: »

    I don't think so. Jess is a member here and I remember being a lurked when her stuff first came out.

    But hey...anything is possible.
    Wanna talk products? Come Join us here!
    http://www.facebook.com/PlatinumPJ

    Extremely thick, kinky curls/coils that have a mind of thier own!!!!
    _____________________________
    I like my men and my hair....KINKY!!!!
    _____________________________
    Wanna save $10 off your next purchase at vitacost.com? Use my referal code (click the link)!


    12459237.png
    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter
  • divadee62divadee62 Curl Neophyte Posts: 115Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Yes Hairveda/BJ currently claims on her website that all of her products are hand-made, not pre-made *snicker* and the forumlations can't be found anywhere else etc.etc.etc.

    http://hairveda.com/faq.aspx

    Q:When should I expect my order to ship?

    A: Expect your order to ship between 10-15 business days. Do not include weekends. We Ship 1x per week. Keep in mind that each product is made by hand and we do not have a stocked inventory of pre-made products. We do this to ensure freshness and quality. We receive large amounts of orders daily. If your order is not shipped within this time frame, please contact us.


    Q: Do you really make all your products by hand?
    A: Yes! We make all our products in a clean facility by hand under the strictest conditions. I wouldn't have it any other way. Many of our customers like to customize products, there's no way to get the detailed customization and love from factory machinery.


    Q: How do you come up with these products? Do you resale?
    A: Many of these products were originally made specifically for me and my family. Most of my ideas come from the Indian Ayurvedic method of hair care. I customize my products to suit ethnic hair. Other ideas came from customers who needed specific products to address issues. None of my products can be found for resale or drop-ship. I take great pride in the creative force behind HairVeda and the unique products we make available to you.

    You took the words out of my mouth. Some of the "bases" for hairveda that are posted are not really bases but are emulsifier blends. There is a difference. Also to my knowledge hairveda has never claimed to be handmade....have they?

    I'm on my iPhone so I can't go look.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    And so it began...Relaxer-free since 2003
    Naturally OUT since Sept. 21, 2008
    Products in current rotation:
    Terressentials Left Coast Lemon, Oyin Honey Dew,Hairveda Cocoshasta Oil,Darcy's Botanicals MVSC
    11/20/11 Currently testing out Living Proof's RESTORE Deep Conditioner.
  • mariag002mariag002 Curl Neophyte Posts: 3,557Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    inspector_gadget.jpg
    - Maria

    Big Chop: 9/23/07
    Relaxer free for almost 5 years!

  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Curl Connoisseur Posts: 4,162Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    mariag002 wrote: »
    NCC I think you're right. One of those were BMT (sp??) flakes and needs water added so that's not a base.

    Not only that, you (general you) have to remember that a base is a FINISHED product if you have to add water and preservatives then it is not a base. The only thing you can add to bases are additional oils, herbal powders/extracts (essential oils), and frangrance oils. That's it, and it has to be less than 5% of the total mixture. If you look at the bases we found for Afroveda, they are EXACT matches except for the oils and herbal extracts she added. The hairveda stuff posted is too off for it to be a bases. I'm sure that she might use bases, but it's not the ones posted.
    Wanna talk products? Come Join us here!
    http://www.facebook.com/PlatinumPJ

    Extremely thick, kinky curls/coils that have a mind of thier own!!!!
    _____________________________
    I like my men and my hair....KINKY!!!!
    _____________________________
    Wanna save $10 off your next purchase at vitacost.com? Use my referal code (click the link)!


    12459237.png
    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter
  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Curl Neophyte Posts: 6,446Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    mariag002 wrote: »
    NCC I think you're right. One of those were BMT (sp??) flakes and needs water added so that's not a base.

    Not only that, you (general you) have to remember that a base is a FINISHED product if you have to add water and preservatives then it is not a base. The only thing you can add to bases are additional oils, herbal powders/extracts (essential oils), and frangrance oils. That's it, and it has to be less than 5% of the total mixture. If you look at the bases we found for Afroveda, they are EXACT matches except for the oils and herbal extracts she added. The hairveda stuff posted is too off for it to be a bases. I'm sure that she might use bases, but it's not the ones posted.

    Great points, ladies!
    BC'ed: 26 Dec 09
    YouTube
    Grand Duchess Fierce Freckles, Mistress of the Mighty Snap and Doyenne of the Potent Products Pavane in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
  • divadee62divadee62 Curl Neophyte Posts: 115Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    People are gonna see what they want to see. *kanyeshrug* I listed several items from Hairveda which are clearly bases sold by well-known wholesale base companies. I'm sure as more people get curious...more companies will be listed in this thread as using bases...giving consumers the opportunity to buy their favorite products at a much lower price point...Regardless of the muddy ethical issues brought up regarding Afroveda/Hairveda.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    And so it began...Relaxer-free since 2003
    Naturally OUT since Sept. 21, 2008
    Products in current rotation:
    Terressentials Left Coast Lemon, Oyin Honey Dew,Hairveda Cocoshasta Oil,Darcy's Botanicals MVSC
    11/20/11 Currently testing out Living Proof's RESTORE Deep Conditioner.
  • KeenyliciousKeenylicious Curl Neophyte Posts: 2,320Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    mariag002 wrote: »
    mariag002 wrote: »

    afrosheenqueen - I am BostonMaria over at LHCF and I mentioned something similar to your comment
    The ladies over there pretty much had a freakin fit whenever people (including me) would get mad at Hairveda for sending products 4 weeks after we paid for our items. If you search the old "I'm in love with Hairveda" thread from Nov-Dec 2008 these women were e-ganging up on us LMFAO about how we have to wait, these items are hand made, we either need to have patience or buy stuff from CVS. It really turned me off and I stopped ordering from Hairveda. I did place an order in Sept and I will finally receive my products this week, exactly a month later.

    I found out about the bases about 9 months ago and made a decision to just make my own stuff at home. It curbed my PJism big time. If items are really made at home I will wait, no problem. But once I found out at the reason why it would take so long is because these items needed to be placed with a warehouse first and THEN my stuff would be shipped... just doesn't sit well with me.

    I didn't realize how much faith people put into these companies. You couldn't even question them? That's sad. :sad5:

    I take the advice from Ronald Reagan for most things: "Trust, but Verify" LOL

    Read from this page forward:

    http://www.longhaircareforum.com/hair-care-tips-product-review-discussion/256691-hairveda-products-amazing-27.html from post 1043 (that's me!) and down

    right now id be saying some unpleasant things about LHCF... but it's sunday... ill be back in an hour and a half (after 12am)

    i will say that nc.com happens to be my fave hair board. nappturality is too naziish and lhcf is too... well idk... the members (not ALL) on those sites just rub me the wrong way, makes me never want to come out of lurking on them. hell i hardly even lurk. they make me mad.
    tumblr_lr2y4sUYNh1qb5gkjo1_250.gif
  • mariag002mariag002 Curl Neophyte Posts: 3,557Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    divadee62 wrote: »
    People are gonna see what they want to see. *kanyeshrug* I listed several items from Hairveda which are clearly bases sold by well-known wholesale base companies. I'm sure as more people get curious...more companies will be listed in this thread as using bases...giving consumers the opportunity to buy their favorite products at a much lower price point...Regardless of the muddy ethical issues brought up regarding Afroveda/Hairveda.

    divadee, trust me I already bookmarked them all!!! I will probably not bother with the BMT flakes only because I don't like the Moist Condition Pro or the Moist Condition 24/7. I'll go with the base conditioners from the Essential Wholesale website.

    Keenyme, I hear ya. I am a member of LHCF and I post over there pretty much all day. Every board has its pros and cons. I go back and forth between the two sites. This one is more geared towards natural hair. I like LHCF because I can focus (obsess?) over my hair growth. I try to ignore any users that are catty, but that goes for both sites.
    - Maria

    Big Chop: 9/23/07
    Relaxer free for almost 5 years!

  • CocoTCocoT Posts: 5,330Registered Users
    I refuse to pay to post over there. Maybe I will one day, but right now I refuse. I wish they'd adopt what NAppturality does with their subscriptions. I don't like that in order to participate in the conversations you have to pay. And I don't like the catty vibe. So I just lurk and that's once in a blue moon.

    Nappturality can be a tad too restrictive. Threads will get shut down in the blink of an eye. I like Nappturality but I usually don't find myself engaged by the convo's too much. Well, at least not the ones about hair.
    11.gif
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
    -Albert Einstein
    Discounts:iHerb: EZA283 for $5 off!, OCO522 for $10 off first purchase | Komaza Care Referral Code: J5Q362VG
  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Curl Connoisseur Posts: 4,162Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    divadee62 wrote: »
    People are gonna see what they want to see. *kanyeshrug* I listed several items from Hairveda which are clearly bases sold by well-known wholesale base companies. I'm sure as more people get curious...more companies will be listed in this thread as using bases...giving consumers the opportunity to buy their favorite products at a much lower price point...Regardless of the muddy ethical issues brought up regarding Afroveda/Hairveda.

    No I agree. I'm all for being educated consumers. Knowledge is most def power. As such, we need to be clear with that knowledge and not spread misinformation. Saying that the conditioner concentrates are bases is scientifically incorrect, that's all. Now I will agree that for those people that want to tinker around with the concentrate to make their own conditioner, this knowledge is helpful. But to call it a base is incorrect. I'm all for buying the cheaper base if available, and just placed an order today. But I just want to make sure that we are not giving out misinformation.
    Wanna talk products? Come Join us here!
    http://www.facebook.com/PlatinumPJ

    Extremely thick, kinky curls/coils that have a mind of thier own!!!!
    _____________________________
    I like my men and my hair....KINKY!!!!
    _____________________________
    Wanna save $10 off your next purchase at vitacost.com? Use my referal code (click the link)!


    12459237.png
    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter
  • DEL2CDEL2C Curl Neophyte Posts: 6,418Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I was livid when I found out about Jasmines last Winter but I seemed to be the only one :lol: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=91490&page=2

    This thread has been even more enlightening....and entertaining

    now let me say this aren't we glad Marsha from Curl Junkie isn't involved in this mess?
    Discovered CG 2007

    2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

    Link-Spritz & Condish Washing:glasses7:

    I'm aCurlJunkieJunky :love4:

    My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars :tongue6:


    CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Curl Neophyte Posts: 6,446Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I agree with Maria regarding LHCF. I post there a lot too, and there are more challenges and information pertaining to growth. Every board can get catty (let's not deny that NC can get catty). If you don't have a specific growth goal/timeline though, I wouldn't bother. Those ladies have me drinking raw eggs and putting stinky sulfur oil in my hair, lol!
    BC'ed: 26 Dec 09
    YouTube
    Grand Duchess Fierce Freckles, Mistress of the Mighty Snap and Doyenne of the Potent Products Pavane in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
  • afrosheenqueenafrosheenqueen Curl Connoisseur Posts: 5,400Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    ellepixie wrote: »
    I agree with Maria regarding LHCF. I post there a lot too, and there are more challenges and information pertaining to growth. Every board can get catty (let's not deny that NC can get catty). If you don't have a specific growth goal/timeline though, I wouldn't bother. Those ladies have me drinking raw eggs and putting stinky sulfur oil in my hair, lol!

    They haven't convinced you about the coochie cream yet have they? :laughing1:
    4a/b Texlaxed hair w/ highlights. Medium texture & high porosity.

    HG's: CJ Daily Fix, Bobeam Cheris Hibiscus shampoo bar, KC Spiral Spritz, Knot Today, CJ Rehab, KBB LL Hair Mask, Cassia, KCCC, oil blend of Avocado, Camellia, Jojoba, & Meadowfoam oils

    SL APL BSL MBL
  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Curl Neophyte Posts: 6,446Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ellepixie wrote: »
    I agree with Maria regarding LHCF. I post there a lot too, and there are more challenges and information pertaining to growth. Every board can get catty (let's not deny that NC can get catty). If you don't have a specific growth goal/timeline though, I wouldn't bother. Those ladies have me drinking raw eggs and putting stinky sulfur oil in my hair, lol!

    They haven't convinced you about the cootie cream yet have they? :laughing1:

    LOL no ma'am, I draw the line at Monistat! Too awkward going into the store to buy that anyway!! :laughing1:
    BC'ed: 26 Dec 09
    YouTube
    Grand Duchess Fierce Freckles, Mistress of the Mighty Snap and Doyenne of the Potent Products Pavane in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file