Someone loaned us Babywise...

ShanaVilloriaShanaVilloria Registered Users Posts: 263
And, wow, what a piece of crap book it is! It should seriously go out of print.

One of DH's coworkers who recently had a baby loaned it to him, and he graciously accepted it. At home, I read reviews on amazon, and shall we say the reviews are "mixed"? Lots of one stars and five stars. The one stars convinced me. The guy's a quack and the book is garbage. I ended up skimming it for the lolz though, just to see how bad it really is.

Do you think we should warn the girl who loaned it to us of it's dubious merit? Apparently she wasn't all gung-ho about it, but rather of the "I found some of it helpful" attitude, so that's a relief. But what if she doesn't know that it is denounced by the AAP? How do we kindly suggest that it's a load of baloney without being rude and appearing ungrateful for her loaning us this book to be nice?

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Comments

  • geminigemini Registered Users Posts: 3,325
    A former neighbor sent it to me as a gift and claimed it worked wonders for her. I started looking through it and I was horrified. I donated it, but I probably should have just chucked it into the trash.

    In your case, I would just say it doesn't line up with your parenting methods/beliefs and maybe add that you looked it up and saw that the AAP denounced it. I don't think that's rude, especially if she wasn't passionate about the book in the first place. I am not in regular contact with the former neighbor, so she never got to hear my opinion on it! :lol:
  • DelmaDelma Registered Users Posts: 1,121
    I agree with gemini and also did you post this on mothering too?
  • PixieCurlPixieCurl Registered Users Posts: 5,656
    I wouldn't say anything, just thank her for loaning it and say it was interesting. If she asks if you found it helpful, I'd just say it doesn't really line up with your parenting beliefs but it was still interesting to read. Or, if one minute detail was helpful, you could mention that.
    Faith, 3Aish redhead
    Mama to two wild superheroes and a curly-headed baby boy :love5:
  • ShanaVilloriaShanaVilloria Registered Users Posts: 263
    Thanks for the sound advice! I likes it.

    And no, I didn't post this anywhere else. Is mothering a good forum/site to use? If so, I should check if out.

    Photobucket of Babies: http://photobucket.com/VilloriaBoys
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    CG Since October 29, 2009.
    2A and 3A
    Co-wash:
    GTTT
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    Leave in: Curl Junkie Beauticurls
    Styling: CHS Curl Keeper + KCCC
    u10Jm7.png
  • DelmaDelma Registered Users Posts: 1,121
    yes it is a very good site, its funny cause their was a post very similar to yours on there. i guess this must be a controversial book.
  • inheritedcurlsinheritedcurls Registered Users Posts: 2,954 Curl Connoisseur
    I disagree. I liked Babywise. Although, I didn't follow it to the letter it gave me ideas on how to schedule my kids feedings, sleeping etc. Each parent and kid is different on parenting ideas etc. Chas was a high-maintenance kid. I had to really work with him to get him to sleep through the night. He was 2 before he slept through on a consistent basis. Scheduling feeds helped me to read my babies signs of gas, hungry, sleepiness etc.
  • mad scientistmad scientist Registered Users Posts: 3,530 Curl Neophyte
    I disagree. I liked Babywise. Although, I didn't follow it to the letter it gave me ideas on how to schedule my kids feedings, sleeping etc. Each parent and kid is different on parenting ideas etc. Chas was a high-maintenance kid. I had to really work with him to get him to sleep through the night. He was 2 before he slept through on a consistent basis. Scheduling feeds helped me to read my babies signs of gas, hungry, sleepiness etc.

    I have to agree. I'm not sure what the fuss about Babywise is. I realize the guy is a religious zealot but there were some ideas in the book that I liked: getting the kids up at a certain time each morning seemed to make the rest of the days routine fall into place. Scheduling wasn't too important with one baby, but I found it very handy with one toddler and then with one preschooler and a newborn. I consider myself to be a very child-centered parent but I'm also a believer in routines, and schedules (especially when there are multiple people to organize).

    In any case, if your friend asks what you think, I'd just say "Thanks for the book - its not really my style".
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Registered Users Posts: 31,259 Curl Connoisseur
    I'm always surprised that people actually take parenting advice given in fad books to heart. Really?

    I have not read Babywise, but I gather it advocates schedules and peple sneer at that like it's a bad thing. I'm pro-schedules. I love to sleep and I hate being sleep-deprived, and if I hadn't gotten my kids on good sleep schedules early on, I would have been very unhappy...and they probably would have been very unhappy also. I just instinctively worked on their shaping their sleep habits from Day 1, because sleep is so important to me. I honestly don't know how parents function for months and years on end (seemingly never-ending numbers of years) with kids who wake up all-night-long. I seriously think I would have run away. And how happy can kids who don't get good sleep actually be? Seems like they would be miserable, and cranky, and having more-than-necessary temper tantrums.

    So...I don't see anything wrong with a book that advocates schedules, unless this man is saying to beat kids into schedules or something. If you start early, you don't even have to let kids cry to get them to sleep. I never left my kids crying. What is the BFD about this Babywise book that gets people so upset?
  • PixieCurlPixieCurl Registered Users Posts: 5,656
    I haven't read BW so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason it's controversial isn't just because it advocates scheduling (so does Sleepless in America, which seems to be more popular) is because it advises waiting longer-than-is-probably-safe stretches between feedings, even in young babies.
    Faith, 3Aish redhead
    Mama to two wild superheroes and a curly-headed baby boy :love5:
  • inheritedcurlsinheritedcurls Registered Users Posts: 2,954 Curl Connoisseur
    PixieCurl wrote: »
    I haven't read BW so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason it's controversial isn't just because it advocates scheduling (so does Sleepless in America, which seems to be more popular) is because it advises waiting longer-than-is-probably-safe stretches between feedings, even in young babies.

    If I remember correctly he starts with every 2 hours. This is from the time you start feeding to the next feeding. I can't imagine feeding your baby more often. I can see this being different if you have a small baby but you can basically can follow the same schedule just feed more often. He even allows for those growth spurts saying to feed your baby more often.

    Yes, RCW. This book would be right up your alley with around scheduled sleeping/feeding. He does believe in letting them fuss longer than most people do but only after checking every other possibility. He still tells you to go in and pat them. Tell them you love them and night night. Walk back out.
  • mad scientistmad scientist Registered Users Posts: 3,530 Curl Neophyte
    I thought this was a good review of Babywise that highlights the good and bad of it.

    http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/reviews/parenting_books/on_becoming_babywise.html

    I don't remember all the details of the book - I read it quickly in the bookstore 5 years ago. But I had read Baby Whisperer before that, and it sounded kind of the same, except that it was written by some Church leader and not a nice-sounding English nanny. Both these books IMO and not very helpful when it comes to breastfeeding - but honestly, if you want breastfeeding advice you don't go to a man or someone who looks after other people's kids (and isn't a wet nurse).
  • CGNYCCGNYC Registered Users Posts: 4,938 Curl Connoisseur
    Sleepless in America doesn't suggest rigid scheduled feeding, it suggest having a predictable routine and pattern. I don't remember if it touches on infants at all.

    Isn't feeding on demand, no matter how you feed, pretty much the standard these days?
  • Jenny CJenny C Registered Users Posts: 1,195
    I read it when I was pregnant, and I did use the eat/wake/sleep cycle, which seemed to be Lucy's natural cycle anyway and I tried to keep a 3 hours routine. So that part I found to be useful.

    What I didn't like was that it said it was normal for a baby to cry before sleeping for up to 45 minutes or something crazy like that. That just didn't seem right to me on any level, so that part I didn't follow at all.

    I also read the Sears baby book at the same time, and while I found alot of that helpful too, the co-sleeping, and talk of 2 year olds waking up several times a night seemed just as crazy as letting a baby cry for 45 minutes.

    With all of these books and philosophies, you just have to use common sense, and only take the parts that seem right to you.
    If you got nothing to bring to the table - don't even bother sitting down.
  • inheritedcurlsinheritedcurls Registered Users Posts: 2,954 Curl Connoisseur
    Jenny C wrote: »

    With all of these books and philosophies, you just have to use common sense, and only take the parts that seem right to you.

    exactly.
  • geekygeeky Registered Users Posts: 4,995
    I thought this was a good review of Babywise that highlights the good and bad of it.

    http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/reviews/parenting_books/on_becoming_babywise.html

    I don't remember all the details of the book - I read it quickly in the bookstore 5 years ago. But I had read Baby Whisperer before that, and it sounded kind of the same, except that it was written by some Church leader and not a nice-sounding English nanny. Both these books IMO and not very helpful when it comes to breastfeeding - but honestly, if you want breastfeeding advice you don't go to a man or someone who looks after other people's kids (and isn't a wet nurse).

    I didn't read all of Babywise, but if I recall correctly the current edition has been very much revised after a lot of flack received, and a lot of the hardcore stuff has been removed. I think he initially suggested a 4 hour feeding schedule even for infants. I also remember flipping through Toddlerwise in the bookstore and seeing him suggest that you smack a one-year-old's hand if they play with their food.
    My thinking is if someone clearly has no clue about child development and only revised his advice because of severe pressure, then everything he says is suspect.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
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    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • CocoaCoilyCocoaCoily Registered Users Posts: 2,648 Curl Neophyte
    My first daughter, the preemie, came home after 63 days in the NICU on a 4-hour feeding schedule. And, I'm trying to get my 2nd on a 4-hour. Currently, she's on a 3-hour.

    I didn't think 4-hour was a bad thing. I'd love to have that now!
  • geekygeeky Registered Users Posts: 4,995
    CocoaCoily wrote: »
    My first daughter, the preemie, came home after 63 days in the NICU on a 4-hour feeding schedule. And, I'm trying to get my 2nd on a 4-hour. Currently, she's on a 3-hour.

    I didn't think 4-hour was a bad thing. I'd love to have that now!
    A 4-hour schedule will not work most times when starting a breastfeeding relationship, though. It's not frequent enough to establish a good milk supply. And the bm digests faster than formula so a newborn needs to eat more often. If you are only feeding your kid every 4 hours and your supply is not good, then they will not get enough food. They advocated that for newborns, said that bf more frequently was bad for supply, which is the opposite of the truth.
    Nothing wrong with stretching out the spacing between feedings a bit at a time for an older baby, when you know your supply is good and your baby is gaining well. You don't do that with a newborn though, not when breastfeeding.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Registered Users Posts: 31,259 Curl Connoisseur
    geeky wrote: »
    CocoaCoily wrote: »
    My first daughter, the preemie, came home after 63 days in the NICU on a 4-hour feeding schedule. And, I'm trying to get my 2nd on a 4-hour. Currently, she's on a 3-hour.

    I didn't think 4-hour was a bad thing. I'd love to have that now!
    A 4-hour schedule will not work most times when starting a breastfeeding relationship, though. It's not frequent enough to establish a good milk supply. And the bm digests faster than formula so a newborn needs to eat more often. If you are only feeding your kid every 4 hours and your supply is not good, then they will not get enough food. They advocated that for newborns, said that bf more frequently was bad for supply, which is the opposite of the truth.
    Nothing wrong with stretching out the spacing between feedings a bit at a time for an older baby, when you know your supply is good and your baby is gaining well. You don't do that with a newborn though, not when breastfeeding.


    I stretched out the intervals between feedings starting right from birth, and I breastfed. The key is to do it very gradually and gently. We first tried to get to every-2-hours, we didn't go directly to ever-4-hours. Holding a newborn baby off isn't feasible at every feeding, but I found it works better to start striving for schedules immediately, rather than waiting til things are established in unwanted patterns that are very difficult to un-do. Same with sleeping. Our schedules weren't perfect from Day 1, but if I had waited months to even start, we would never have reached almost-perfect schedules.

    And I do think that breastfeeding more often than every-two-hours is bad for supply.
  • MagooMagoo Registered Users Posts: 2,173 Curl Neophyte
    Although I've never read Babywise and I don't believe in strict schedules, I'm a big believer in setting some kind of routine or pattern to the day. I regret not working on getting my oldest son on some kind of routine or schedule from the beginning because for a long time he was all over the place when it came to naps and sleep. I was one of those parents that RCW mentioned that spent years not sleeping and it was absolutely awful. I feel I didn't enjoy my son as much as I could have for the first 3 years because I was so unbelievably exhausted and sleep deprived. I was just trying to get through the days and nights.

    As far as the breastfeeding, I'm currently dealing with oversupply issues which I think may have been brought on by my 8 week olds constant snacking. He was getting nothing but foremilk which was making him gassy, fussy and turning his poop green. Since I started working on getting him to get a good feeding in every 2-3 hours he's started to nap longer is less fussynot as gassy and his poops are back to normal.
    3b/c fine, thick, porous, protein sensitive
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