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As a 4b, do you at all feel alienated from the 4as, 3cs, and above?

IndeedIndeed Posts: 72Registered Users
I'll start off by saying that I have no ill feelings toward being a 4b. I like my hair. However, I just feel kind of...isolated when it comes to other natural ladies.

On almost every natural hair website, it seems like there are almost no 4bs whatsoever. The ladies with long hair in their fotkis never have the same hair texture that I do. Plus, sometimes, some 3c ladies will complain about that "rough", 4b coily patch in the middle of their heads and say how they can never keep it moisturized and soft. Well, how do they think it is for someone with hair like that all over their head? :-| It's really not that bad, but they make it out to be like it's the end of the world.

So, this leaves me to the question...where are all the 4bs? I find it hard to believe that 90% of black women only have 4a or 3c hair. Could it be that the 4bs are just the least prone to go natural?
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Comments

  • AmberBrownAmberBrown Posts: 1,072Registered Users
    Indeed wrote: »
    I'll start off by saying that I have no ill feelings toward being a 4b. I like my hair. However, I just feel kind of...isolated when it comes to other natural ladies.

    On almost every natural hair website, it seems like there are almost no 4bs whatsoever. The ladies with long hair in their fotkis never have the same hair texture that I do. Plus, sometimes, some 3c ladies will complain about that "rough", 4b coily patch in the middle of their heads and say how they can never keep it moisturized and soft. Well, how do they think it is for someone with hair like that all over their head? :-| It's really not that bad, but they make it out to be like it's the end of the world.

    So, this leaves me to the question...where are all the 4bs? I find it hard to believe that 90% of black women only have 4a or 3c hair. Could it be that the 4bs just are less prone to go natural?

    I've always wondered about the bolded too. I think that yeah, either "4bs" are less likely to go natural or ladies with looser hair textures are highlighted and exposed to an extreme degree when compared to their counterparts (obviously the two possibilities are rooted in the same problem--that *bleeping* good hair slave mentality).

    All that said, I have noticed that most hair blogs and forums are void of the tighter textured presence--there's one notable exception that I know of. Nappturality. There are some beautiful ladies over there. As for hair idols? Feast your eyes on NappyMia /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FNappyme%2F" class="Popup
    She also has a blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fnappyme.wordpress.com%2F" class="Popup
    I love her!
  • IndeedIndeed Posts: 72Registered Users
    Oh wow, I butchered that last sentence. Haha.

    It's unfortunate how most of these things boil down to to good hair mentality. =\ Thank you for the blog, though. I hope to run into more of those (as well as fotkis).
  • OnyxK.OnyxK. Posts: 157Registered Users
    i agree lots of the natural hair companies lean towards other curl patterns. i've stopped buying products from companies that do that. they want the money but then put 4b's in a closet.
    i hate that miss jessie's does that. all there before shots and tutorials are designed to make 4b hair look its worst. its why i have never tried their products (the ingredients dont help either).

    to be honest i'm 4-something but not sure, and i don't care. i love my lil fro
    4a/b-whatever! with a twa
    hair properties: fine,porous,dense
    :blob7: SheaMoisture Coconut hibiscus Line:blob7:
  • EkaetteEkaette Posts: 356Registered Users
    Another 4b here! I've noticed the same thing you have and that one sentence with the one patch of 4b always burned me up inside. I'm glad somebody else noticed lol
    event.png

    4b natural
  • forbeeforbee Posts: 441Registered Users
    Indeed wrote: »
    I'll start off by saying that I have no ill feelings toward being a 4b. I like my hair. However, I just feel kind of...isolated when it comes to other natural ladies.

    On almost every natural hair website, it seems like there are almost no 4bs whatsoever. The ladies with long hair in their fotkis never have the same hair texture that I do. Plus, sometimes, some 3c ladies will complain about that "rough", 4b coily patch in the middle of their heads and say how they can never keep it moisturized and soft. Well, how do they think it is for someone with hair like that all over their head? :-| It's really not that bad, but they make it out to be like it's the end of the world.

    So, this leaves me to the question...where are all the 4bs? I find it hard to believe that 90% of black women only have 4a or 3c hair. Could it be that the 4bs are just the least prone to go natural?

    This.

    And to answer the question, yes I do. I feel left out when people are talking about "defining curls." What curls? lol. But at the same time, it's a relief, because I just have to worry about keeping my hair healthy.
    last relaxer 08/08/09
    all natural since 7/30/10


    Shrinkage happens.
  • AmberBrownAmberBrown Posts: 1,072Registered Users
    Wanted to add another blogger whose hair isn't so much on the curlier side of things (imo). /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Ftargetqueen.blogspot.com%2F2010%2F06%2Fsome-updated-photos-and-new-purchases.html" class="Popup
  • IndeedIndeed Posts: 72Registered Users
    OnyxK. wrote: »
    i agree lots of the natural hair companies lean towards other curl patterns. i've stopped buying products from companies that do that. they want the money but then put 4b's in a closet.
    i hate that miss jessie's does that. all there before shots and tutorials are designed to make 4b hair look its worst. its why i have never tried their products (the ingredients dont help either).

    to be honest i'm 4-something but not sure, and i don't care. i love my lil fro

    Oh my, I haven't noticed that since I don't buy any products online. I'll have to visit that site and see the photos for myself, although with the way you described it, I'm angry with those companies already.

    Ekaette wrote: »
    Another 4b here! I've noticed the same thing you have and that one sentence with the one patch of 4b always burned me up inside. I'm glad somebody else noticed lol

    Oh good, so I'm not crazy. lol. I know some people who do that don't mean to be offensive at all, but it still kind of strikes a nerve with me.

    forbee wrote: »
    Could it be that the 4bs are just the least prone to go natural?

    This.

    And to answer the question, yes I do. I feel left out when people are talking about "defining curls." What curls? lol. But at the same time, it's a relief, because I just have to worry about keeping my hair healthy.

    I totally know what you mean. While I do get curl definition from time to time, it's never intentional and I usually end up frizzing it up anyway. If I want super defined curls, that's what twist/braid/bantu knot outs are for. =)

    AmberBrown wrote: »
    Wanted to add another blogger whose hair isn't so much on the curlier side of things (imo). /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Ftargetqueen.blogspot.com%2F2010%2F06%2Fsome-updated-photos-and-new-purchases.html" class="Popup
    Oh my goodness, her hair is GORGEOUS. :love10: Hair. Envy. I hope I can get a fierce fro like that someday.
  • dearheart15dearheart15 Posts: 177Registered Users
    I always wonder why the 4b thread hardly gets any posts over here??? I know I've posted in the 4a section just because its frequented more often and there's a better likelihood of some feedback.

    Thanks for the great blogs AmberBrown!
    last perm ~ late May 2009
    BC'd ~ July 1, 2009
    fotki ~ last updated 2/2011
  • princessai16princessai16 Posts: 125Registered Users
    I agree with the comments above. Most days you see like 3b and up being broadcast as natural hair and good acceptable hair. Before seeing my ng, I thought I was 4b and I would always get SO mad when I would see commercials showing light skinned black women with loose curly hair. Like who the Heck is that supposed to represent? We should be represented by someone in the 4s not by biracial blacks that look more "Acceptable". After finding out my hair had a curls pattern, I liked it. My parents/family still call it nappy. Anything 3c and down is nappy in my family's eyes. And I used to get bashed all the time to the point where my self esteem was at an all time low, and I'm usually 99% of the time optimistic. No matter if your 3c 4a 4b, it's all bad hair in ignorant black folks eyes. And when you have good hair, you also get bashed. So I COMPLETLY understand where you come from.
    Medium/thick/thin strands
    medium fine front thick back
    deep condish lutrasilk herbal
    moisturize with softn nfree milk protein and olive oil[
    3c/4a half and half ♥
    Love my curls, kinks, coils, napps, corkscrews.
    styler is ORS smooth n hold pudding♥
    Transitioning ended--> forced into relaxer
    If all goes well, will transition in 2012 :)
  • IndeedIndeed Posts: 72Registered Users
    I always wonder why the 4b thread hardly gets any posts over here??? I know I've posted in the 4a section just because its frequented more often and there's a better likelihood of some feedback.

    Thanks for the great blogs AmberBrown!


    I was wondering the exact same thing. I do love how fast and populated that board is, but it's still a bit fishy how this one is practically a ghost town. We can't be the only 4bs on the whole site...can we?

    I agree with the comments above. Most days you see like 3b and up being broadcast as natural hair and good acceptable hair. Before seeing my ng, I thought I was 4b and I would always get SO mad when I would see commercials showing light skinned black women with loose curly hair. Like who the Heck is that supposed to represent? We should be represented by someone in the 4s not by biracial blacks that look more "Acceptable". After finding out my hair had a curls pattern, I liked it. My parents/family still call it nappy. Anything 3c and down is nappy in my family's eyes. And I used to get bashed all the time to the point where my self esteem was at an all time low, and I'm usually 99% of the time optimistic. No matter if your 3c 4a 4b, it's all bad hair in ignorant black folks eyes. And when you have good hair, you also get bashed. So I COMPLETLY understand where you come from.


    Spot on about the projection of "acceptable" black people with loose hair. There's nothing wrong with light skin and loose curls at all, but it's kind of disheartening when no one seems to acknowledge that people with tighter curls and darker skin exist.

    Also, I can relate with the family not liking your hair thing. My dad always acts disgusted when he sees my natural hair out. While my mom is 100% against relaxers, she still doesn't like hair in its natural state. She even said that when she was pregnant with me, she prayed everyday that I would have "good hair" instead of the 4b curls that I got. She says she didn't pray hard enough. *sigh*

    Guess you can't really make anyone happy aside from yourself at the end of the day. Really cheesy, but I'm beginning to believe it's true.

    On a side note, what type of hair does your family have? If they have 3c-4b hair as well, then that's pretty hypocritical.
  • Bookworm08Bookworm08 Posts: 42Registered Users
    I agree with every poster so far. I have 4b hair and really wish this forum was used as much as the 4a forum. On another note I don't think we are the only 4ber's on this site, there are alot more but because of the negative way 4b hair is viewed many don't wish to identify their hair such.
  • Alice_42 Alice_42 Posts: 791Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I always wonder why the 4b thread hardly gets any posts over here??? I know I've posted in the 4a section just because its frequented more often and there's a better likelihood of some feedback.

    Thanks for the great blogs AmberBrown!

    I agree. I feel like the 4b forum doesn't get as many replies so people tend to post their questions where they're going to get the most replies. I've even seen 2s and 3s posting questions in the 4a forum for that reason!

    I also think 4bs are less likely to go and stay natural. When you first start out, it's really hard to maintain moisture and because it's not "good hair" you're going to (probably) face a lot of negative feedback from friends and family and that can wear you down very quickly.
    event.png

    Last relaxer: August 2008
    Big Chop: December 2008/January 2009
    Blog: Alice in Nappyland
  • peachfuzzzpeachfuzzz Posts: 113Registered Users
    I agree with dearheart and the others about posting in 4a because of the chance of getting a response is greater.

    I am 4b also, but thought at one point that I was 4a. It could be that people are 'misdiagnosing' their curls like I did. It was kinda hard to understand the curl thing without seeing an actual head in front of me (pics aren't always easy to see). I'm learning to love the hair that I was created with, regardless of curls or the lack there of. I actually have spirals, but they are soooo tiny, they get lost in manipulation when I'm doing my hair! And as for combating dryness and such, I've done LOTS of reading from a few boards! My friends can't believe how soft and manageable my hair is! Frequent washing/Cowashing, DC,leave-ins and moisturizers are gold!!
    Texture: Coarse?; Density: Med (?); Porosity(:confused3:?? Med-high); Wave pattern: 4B coils

    Poo:
    Elucence MB
    Deep Condish: GVP Conditioning Balm Moisturizer: Qhemets Amla Olive HC:love5:
    Sealer: QB
    Aethiopika Hydrate & Twist (I use this as a styler too)
    Stylers: ORS Twist and Lock
    (rarely use)

    event.png

    event.png

  • Kinky RhonnieKinky Rhonnie Posts: 1,166Registered Users
    Hey ladies, I'm primarily 4b with very little 4a but its that d@mn patch of 3c in the crown that gets on my nerves. lol

    I have tight, kinky pen spring and pencil size curls all over for the most part but the crown section is a wavy, frizzy mess. My twist/braid outs will be banging all over and a few hours later, that frizzy crown loses definition and rears it's ugly head.

    I do post in the 4a forum most often like everyone else because it's the most active but I check and respond to relevant threads on this end to if I feel I can offer advice and support.
  • msjaimmsjaim Posts: 948Registered Users
    this is the main reason I dont care for typing
  • breathebreathe Posts: 399Registered Users
    I find myself wondering where they are, too. :/ Especially when it comes to youtube - A lot of the women who do tutorials and videos for 4b hair quite obviously have 4a hair!
    big chop: 03/09/2010.
    modified cg.
    medium/coarse | dense | normal porosity | 4b/3c with random sprinkles of 4a.

  • xyzioloxyziolo Posts: 232Registered Users
    Bookworm08 wrote: »
    I agree with every poster so far. I have 4b hair and really wish this forum was used as much as the 4a forum. On another note I don't think we are the only 4ber's on this site, there are alot more but because of the negative way 4b hair is viewed many don't wish to identify their hair such.

    This is correct.

    I'm sure there are tons of 4bs that identify with 4a because they are in DENIAL. Despite all the mixing that has occurred in this country, most African Americans are brown or black with hair in the 4s. And that is a BEAUTIFUL legacy. I am a Dominican - considered "mixed" and with "good hair" (by some, 3b/c), but I identify myself as black to the utter surprise of many Dominicans. It's pathetic really, I have been told by my Dominican counterparts that, "you're not black girl, you are more indian, you have thin features and good hair". People do ANYTHING to distance themselves from their African heritage. Although there have been positive changes and this site is proof that many women are accpeting and loving their heritage more and more.
  • AmberBrownAmberBrown Posts: 1,072Registered Users
    You guys!! I hope you don't think I'm spamming (and I'm sure many of you have seen the bloggers, youtubers and fotki(ers) that I'm gushing over but this thread topic is one that I'm pretty passionate about (lol) so I'm taking the opportunity to bombard the world with every relevant hair idol I find :D

    Blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frostoppa.com%2F" class="Popup
    Fotki:/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fotki.com%2Fms-gg" class="Popup
    YT: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2FFroStoppa" class="Popup

    Miss lady has her hair on point!

    So many black women claim to embrace "natural" hair while ignoring the hair type that our race is probably most known for. Others try to completely ignore the existance of non "curly" black hair. Since they have a curl pattern errybody must have a curl pattern. Obviously not the case.
  • dearheart15dearheart15 Posts: 177Registered Users
    AmberBrown wrote: »
    You guys!! I hope you don't think I'm spamming (and I'm sure many of you have seen the bloggers, youtubers and fotki(ers) that I'm gushing over but this thread topic is one that I'm pretty passionate about (lol) so I'm taking the opportunity to bombard the world with every relevant hair idol I find :D

    Blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frostoppa.com%2F" class="Popup
    Fotki:/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fotki.com%2Fms-gg" class="Popup
    YT: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2FFroStoppa" class="Popup
    Thanks...I haven't come across frostoppa yet, but my hair is very similar to hers. I always like when people on here recommend blogs or youtubers...its way too many people out there to find them all by yourself.
    last perm ~ late May 2009
    BC'd ~ July 1, 2009
    fotki ~ last updated 2/2011
  • auntcurlyauntcurly Posts: 234Registered Users
    Add me to this list. I alternate wearing my hair natural and relaxed getting really short haircuts usually in summer. The last time I bc'd was 7 years ago. I was looking forward to this bc because of all the new techniques and wonderful products even though I knew I have no curl pattern. And of course, it's been very sobering to accept that these wonderful new products are not going give me the desired effect of some curls.

    I go to the 4a forum because it's busier. But I also visit any forum with hair tips because when it comes to conditioning hair is hair. I've gotten some great tips from caucasian forums, especially when my hair is relaxed. And before all these natural products hit the market, I use to deep condition with Rene Furterer's Karite back in the 80/90s when shea butter was just being discovered by the hair industry.

    I definitely agree that women with my hair texture tend not to go natural. What's sad about that for me is the lack of hair tips, which is why I go to other forums. So those of us who do are really on our own.

    I have yet to see my hair twin. My hair is extremely coarse and wiry, like steel wool, even when moisturized. I once went for a consultation because I wanted locs and learned that my hair would not loc naturally and would have to be trained. My husband on the other hand, all he has to do is not comb his hair and it will loc naturally. Because my hair is so dense and at that time so thick, I elected not to do it because it was just too much of a hassle.

    I'm 4 weeks into this bc, no cones, no heat. But truthfully, my hair loves heat. It also responds to conditioner and does not knot up on the ends as it grows. But the shrinkage is unreal. But I love wearing my hair short and natural in the summer. To me it looks great.
  • SuburbanbushbabeSuburbanbushbabe Posts: 15,402Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    When I first came on this board the 4a section was a graveyard. If you start posting in 4b, they will come. It's already happening, just needs to happen more. I'm mostly 4a, but tend to respond to posts in other type forums when it's appropriate.
    My blog - /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fsuburbanbushbabe.wordpress.com%2F" class="Popup
    My FOTKI - /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwhatsnew.fotki.com%2Fsuburbanbushbabe%2F" class="Popup
    comic-p.jpg

    Playing with my hair is a hobby. Fluffy, fine natural 4a. Goal= Healthy, beautiful hair that retains its length.
    Hear that crash? It's me falling off the CG wagon.
  • dearheart15dearheart15 Posts: 177Registered Users
    When I first came on this board the 4a section was a graveyard. If you start posting in 4b, they will come. It's already happening, just needs to happen more. I'm mostly 4a, but tend to respond to posts in other type forums when it's appropriate.

    I definitely agree...we just have to post and respond more here...
    last perm ~ late May 2009
    BC'd ~ July 1, 2009
    fotki ~ last updated 2/2011
  • Nappy*MeNappy*Me Posts: 21Registered Users
    AmberBrown wrote: »
    Indeed wrote: »
    I'll start off by saying that I have no ill feelings toward being a 4b. I like my hair. However, I just feel kind of...isolated when it comes to other natural ladies.

    On almost every natural hair website, it seems like there are almost no 4bs whatsoever. The ladies with long hair in their fotkis never have the same hair texture that I do. Plus, sometimes, some 3c ladies will complain about that "rough", 4b coily patch in the middle of their heads and say how they can never keep it moisturized and soft. Well, how do they think it is for someone with hair like that all over their head? :-| It's really not that bad, but they make it out to be like it's the end of the world.

    So, this leaves me to the question...where are all the 4bs? I find it hard to believe that 90% of black women only have 4a or 3c hair. Could it be that the 4bs just are less prone to go natural?

    I've always wondered about the bolded too. I think that yeah, either "4bs" are less likely to go natural or ladies with looser hair textures are highlighted and exposed to an extreme degree when compared to their counterparts (obviously the two possibilities are rooted in the same problem--that *bleeping* good hair slave mentality).

    All that said, I have noticed that most hair blogs and forums are void of the tighter textured presence--there's one notable exception that I know of. Nappturality. There are some beautiful ladies over there. As for hair idols? Feast your eyes on NappyMia /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FNappyme%2F" class="Popup
    She also has a blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fnappyme.wordpress.com%2F" class="Popup
    I love her!
    Amber, I'm incredibly flattered beyond words. Thank you.

    With regard to the topic at hand, I think we're just the least likely to go natural. Also, when it's very well cared for and moisturized (with all the edges neatly tucked in) it can look as if it's something else.

    I can't tell you how many times, when I'm wearing one of my twisted hair styles that people have referred to my hair as "good hair."

    But let me wear a puff or some style like my box braids where my edges are out in all their nappy glory and that's when my naps tell no tales. I rarely, if ever get any compliments...not that I'm looking for any but that's the way it goes.

    To the original poster, we do have an internet presence, however, many naturals prefer not to identify with the whole hair typing system and so they're no likely to broadcast that they're a 4B. You've also got folks declaring that they're a 4C, which I think is just 4B hair. But for some reason, they think their hair is the nappiest on earth and so they can't possibly be a 4B. Eh...whatever. But basically, someone who says they're a 4c is really a 4b.

    The cNapp albums page of my blog still has some pretty good active links so go there. And this may help as well.

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fcnappymenow.com%2F" class="Popup

    Good luck!
  • Kinky RhonnieKinky Rhonnie Posts: 1,166Registered Users
    AmberBrown wrote: »
    You guys!! I hope you don't think I'm spamming (and I'm sure many of you have seen the bloggers, youtubers and fotki(ers) that I'm gushing over but this thread topic is one that I'm pretty passionate about (lol) so I'm taking the opportunity to bombard the world with every relevant hair idol I find :D

    Blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frostoppa.com%2F" class="Popup
    Fotki:/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fotki.com%2Fms-gg" class="Popup
    YT: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2FFroStoppa" class="Popup

    Miss lady has her hair on point!

    OMG!!! I LOVE MS GG!! She and Mimicutelips are the main two that kept me focused during transition while I drooled over their hair albums. I had no idea she had a blog or youtube. And she has my blog link on her page. OMG!!!

    Thanks for sharirng!!!

    Also check out /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.fotki.com%2FAuNappturale%2F" class="Popup. She has a head full of long gorgeous 4b hair.
  • ReynaCRReynaCR Posts: 405Registered Users
    Indeed wrote: »
    I'll start off by saying that I have no ill feelings toward being a 4b. I like my hair. However, I just feel kind of...isolated when it comes to other natural ladies.

    On almost every natural hair website, it seems like there are almost no 4bs whatsoever. The ladies with long hair in their fotkis never have the same hair texture that I do. Plus, sometimes, some 3c ladies will complain about that "rough", 4b coily patch in the middle of their heads and say how they can never keep it moisturized and soft. Well, how do they think it is for someone with hair like that all over their head? :-| It's really not that bad, but they make it out to be like it's the end of the world.

    So, this leaves me to the question...where are all the 4bs? I find it hard to believe that 90% of black women only have 4a or 3c hair. Could it be that the 4bs are just the least prone to go natural?

    Agreed. If I didn't hate cameras so much.. I'd start a fotki. :laughing6:...
    :queen: Reyna

    "Don't look back and ask why, look forward and ask why not!?" - Unk.
  • xyzioloxyziolo Posts: 232Registered Users
    You know, reading some of the issues on this post brings to mind a thread I started a week or two ago about 3’s being the true curly hair. There was so much blowback from the post you would think I was discussing 9-11 or something of that magnitude.
    Anyhow, I think it is interesting that some of you gals mentioned not being able to relate to terms like curl formation and that sort of thing and that speaks DIRECTLY to my point on that post. I think calling everyone curly can be a problem….Because everyone is NOT curly. Some are straight, some are wavy, some are curly and some are kinky. Of course we know that wavy and kinky are forms of curl, but nevertheless the hair’s properties are quite different. I feel that a lot of women of color now want to erroneously identify with curly because it makes them feel better. And that should not be the purpose of going natural. Going natural should be about accepting your hair AS IT IS and making an honest assessment of it. There is some escapism, I feel, in using the term curly as an umbrella term. Wavy hair has its own characteristics and they are different than curly. Kinky hair has its very own beautiful personality and it is different than curly hair. In any case, I think you 4b ladies should be proud of hell of what you have – I have seen some GORGEOUS heads of 4b and mouth-dropping fros – when hair is nourished properly. And what about dreads and twists? I have seen some beautiful manes….
  • belwillcoilybelwillcoily Posts: 303Registered Users
    Indeed wrote: »
    I'll start off by saying that I have no ill feelings toward being a 4b. I like my hair. However, I just feel kind of...isolated when it comes to other natural ladies.

    On almost every natural hair website, it seems like there are almost no 4bs whatsoever. The ladies with long hair in their fotkis never have the same hair texture that I do. Plus, sometimes, some 3c ladies will complain about that "rough", 4b coily patch in the middle of their heads and say how they can never keep it moisturized and soft. Well, how do they think it is for someone with hair like that all over their head? :-| It's really not that bad, but they make it out to be like it's the end of the world.

    So, this leaves me to the question...where are all the 4bs? I find it hard to believe that 90% of black women only have 4a or 3c hair. Could it be that the 4bs are just the least prone to go natural?

    Just the other day, after I cleansed my hair, I was looking at my hair and wondering if I had my curl type wrong. There very small sections of my hair when wet with no product (mostly in the crown or very near the crown) that have bigger, looser s-shaped curls that are about pencil-sized. I assumed that those were 3c curls. The rest of my head has a mixture of s-shaped and o-shaped curls that are pen spring or coffee stirrer size. My hair is also super dense (thick) with medium-sized strands. My teensy-tiny curls are easily "undefined" (for lack of a better term) even when wet with gel in them so my hair can easily look like a cloud of dense 4b hair on any given day.

    Which made me begin to wonder if what I have is 4b hair and I have just been placing it in the wrong category all this time. The small sections of my hair with pencil-sized curls might actually be the 4a hair that I think I have on the majority of my head instead of 3c like I've been thinking.

    My understanding of the difference between 4a hair and 4b hair is that 4a hair has visible curls and even if they are very tiny curls, curls are present. 4b hair, on the other hand, does not curl or have a curl pattern to speak of. Is this correct?

    If I turn out to have 4b hair and not 4a as I originally thought, I would still frequent any board that could give me good, reliable information on how to care for my hair. Right now I am just as likely to visit the 2 board as I am the 4b board and respond if I feel I have something to say or add or have a question.

    To be honest with you, I'm about to go the way of many and just forget about the whole hair typing thing. It's really confusing and the things that have helped me learn what my hair likes and dislikes have more to do with understanding its porosity and density more so than the size of its curl...

    Bel
    :afro: Me Fascina El Pelo :afro:




    Low Porosity; Medium Strands; Dense
  • snowbunny5snowbunny5 Posts: 52Registered Users
    This is a great post. I always tried to stay away from 'typing' my hair, but when pressed, would say 4a becasue I was told that initially when I went natural by a stylist in a 'natural' salon. Also, I agree with others who say the 4a board gets a lot of traffic and that's where I hang out mostly because I think more people post there and a lot of the tips I get there work for me. However, I was visiting a salon this weekend where I was told I had 4c hair so perhaps there are many people like me who just are defining their hair incorrectly? Or maybe its just futile to define your hair because to someone I'm a 4a and now to someone else I'm a 4c? Who knows...

    If anyone is curious, I asked what makes someone a 4c vs 4a vs 4b and was told, "4a's grow down, 4b's grow out, 4c's grow up, it really has nothing to do with curl definition or pattern" The stylist also said most 4's, even though their hair looks curly, are actually sporting more of a zig-zag pattern (I always thought mine was curly but whatever?)...I'm not sure I agree with everything the stylist said but, it was an interesting conversation...
  • IndeedIndeed Posts: 72Registered Users
    Bookworm08 wrote: »
    I agree with every poster so far. I have 4b hair and really wish this forum was used as much as the 4a forum. On another note I don't think we are the only 4ber's on this site, there are alot more but because of the negative way 4b hair is viewed many don't wish to identify their hair such.

    This makes a lot of sense, but I think it's a bit tricky because it's more covert negativity directed toward it than anything. No one says "ugh, 4b hair is so awful and anyone who has it is ugly and low class", but more so "4b hair is as dry as the sahara desert and it can't do any of the cool things that 4a and below can. This hair is fuzzy and unmanageable...but if you have it you should love it anyway!" Sort of like a you-were-born-with-something-awful-but-love-yourself thing.
    peachfuzzz wrote: »
    I agree with dearheart and the others about posting in 4a because of the chance of getting a response is greater.
    peachfuzzz wrote: »


    I am 4b also, but thought at one point that I was 4a. It could be that people are 'misdiagnosing' their curls like I did. It was kinda hard to understand the curl thing without seeing an actual head in front of me (pics aren't always easy to see). I'm learning to love the hair that I was created with, regardless of curls or the lack there of. I actually have spirals, but they are soooo tiny, they get lost in manipulation when I'm doing my hair! And as for combating dryness and such, I've done LOTS of reading from a few boards! My friends can't believe how soft and manageable my hair is! Frequent washing/Cowashing, DC,leave-ins and moisturizers are gold!!


    My hair sounds a lot like yours. Reading the boards helped me a lot, but I still can't really find anything that really moisturizes my hair. It's an ongoing journey, but I wouldn't turn back for the world.

    msjaim wrote: »
    this is the main reason I dont care for typing


    I swear, it's like a caste system sometimes.

    breathe wrote: »
    I find myself wondering where they are, too. :/ Especially when it comes to youtube - A lot of the women who do tutorials and videos for 4b hair quite obviously have 4a hair!


    Exactly! I've noticed that too. Although there are only a few 4b's who do tutorials, some helpful ones are mwedzi (looooove her hair) and sera2544.

    Curlcraze4 wrote: »


    This is correct.

    I'm sure there are tons of 4bs that identify with 4a because they are in DENIAL. Despite all the mixing that has occurred in this country, most African Americans are brown or black with hair in the 4s. And that is a BEAUTIFUL legacy. I am a Dominican - considered "mixed" and with "good hair" (by some, 3b/c), but I identify myself as black to the utter surprise of many Dominicans. It's pathetic really, I have been told by my Dominican counterparts that, "you're not black girl, you are more indian, you have thin features and good hair". People do ANYTHING to distance themselves from their African heritage. Although there have been positive changes and this site is proof that many women are accpeting and loving their heritage more and more.


    This right here is 100% truth. It's no surprise when everyone and their mother swear up and down that they are .0001% cherokee, which somehow makes them significantly less black. If you're pretty, best believe it was caused by that drop of irish that entered the family centuries ago. Le sigh.

    AmberBrown wrote: »
    You guys!! I hope you don't think I'm spamming (and I'm sure many of you have seen the bloggers, youtubers and fotki(ers) that I'm gushing over but this thread topic is one that I'm pretty passionate about (lol) so I'm taking the opportunity to bombard the world with every relevant hair idol I find
    AmberBrown wrote: »
    :D

    Blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frostoppa.com%2F" class="Popup
    Fotki:/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fotki.com%2Fms-gg" class="Popup
    YT: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2FFroStoppa" class="Popup

    Miss lady has her hair on point!

    So many black women claim to embrace "natural" hair while ignoring the hair type that our race is probably most known for. Others try to completely ignore the existance of non "curly" black hair. Since they have a curl pattern errybody must have a curl pattern. Obviously not the case.


    You're not spamming at all, we need these links! Also, I'm just in awe over how thick her hair is. *lick*

    auntcurly wrote: »
    Add me to this list. I alternate wearing my hair natural and relaxed getting really short haircuts usually in summer. The last time I bc'd was 7 years ago. I was looking forward to this bc because of all the new techniques and wonderful products even though I knew I have no curl pattern. And of course, it's been very sobering to accept that these wonderful new products are not going give me the desired effect of some curls.
    auntcurly wrote: »


    I definitely agree that women with my hair texture tend not to go natural. What's sad about that for me is the lack of hair tips, which is why I go to other forums. So those of us who do are really on our own.

    I have yet to see my hair twin. My hair is extremely coarse and wiry, like steel wool, even when moisturized. I once went for a consultation because I wanted locs and learned that my hair would not loc naturally and would have to be trained. My husband on the other hand, all he has to do is not comb his hair and it will loc naturally. Because my hair is so dense and at that time so thick, I elected not to do it because it was just too much of a hassle.

    I'm 4 weeks into this bc, no cones, no heat. But truthfully, my hair loves heat. It also responds to conditioner and does not knot up on the ends as it grows. But the shrinkage is unreal. But I love wearing my hair short and natural in the summer. To me it looks great.


    I agree completely. We are kinda left out in the dark, huh? I know you haven't found your hair twin yet, but from the sound of it, your hair is very nice. My ends tangle and knot up, no matter what I do. If it's twisted all the way down, moisturized and trimmed, it still acts naughty no matter what. I wish I could wear my hair unstretched at times.
  • IndeedIndeed Posts: 72Registered Users
    When I first came on this board the 4a section was a graveyard. If you start posting in 4b, they will come. It's already happening, just needs to happen more. I'm mostly 4a, but tend to respond to posts in other type forums when it's appropriate.


    Well hopefully, this topic will contribute to the "more posts for 4b" movement. =)

    Nappy*Me wrote: »
    AmberBrown wrote: »
    Indeed wrote: »
    So, this leaves me to the question...where are all the 4bs? I find it hard to believe that 90% of black women only have 4a or 3c hair. Could it be that the 4bs just are less prone to go natural?


    I've always wondered about the bolded too. I think that yeah, either "4bs" are less likely to go natural or
    ladies with looser hair textures are highlighted and exposed to an extreme degree when compared to their counterparts (obviously the two possibilities are rooted in the same problem--that *bleeping* good hair slave mentality).
    All that said, I have noticed that most hair blogs and forums are void of the tighter textured presence--there's one notable exception that I know of. Nappturality. There are some beautiful ladies over there. As for hair idols? Feast your eyes on NappyMia /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FNappyme%2F" class="Popup
    She also has a blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fnappyme.wordpress.com%2F" class="Popup
    I love her!

    Amber, I'm incredibly flattered beyond words. Thank you.

    With regard to the topic at hand, I think we're just the least likely to go natural. Also, when it's very well cared for and moisturized (with all the edges neatly tucked in) it can look as if it's something else.

    I can't tell you how many times, when I'm wearing one of my twisted hair styles that people have referred to my hair as "good hair."

    But let me wear a puff or some style like my box braids where my edges are out in all their nappy glory and that's when my naps tell no tales. I rarely, if ever get any compliments...not that I'm looking for any but that's the way it goes.

    To the original poster, we do have an internet presence, however, many naturals prefer not to identify with the whole hair typing system and so they're no likely to broadcast that they're a 4B. You've also got folks declaring that they're a 4C, which I think is just 4B hair. But for some reason, they think their hair is the nappiest on earth and so they can't possibly be a 4B. Eh...whatever. But basically, someone who says they're a 4c is really a 4b.

    The cNapp albums page of my blog still has some pretty good active links so go there. And this may help as well.

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fcnappymenow.com%2F" class="Popup

    Good luck!


    That's a damn shame. In know you you aren't looking for anyone's approval over your hair, but it's still nice to get compliments. I also agree with you about the 4c thing...I don't think that category (if any) is necessary. Thank you for the link, btw.
    Curlcraze4 wrote: »
    You know, reading some of the issues on this post brings to mind a thread I started a week or two ago about 3’s being the true curly hair. There was so much blowback from the post you would think I was discussing 9-11 or something of that magnitude. Anyhow, I think it is interesting that some of you gals mentioned not being able to relate to terms like curl formation and that sort of thing and that speaks DIRECTLY to my point on that post. I think calling everyone curly can be a problem….Because everyone is NOT curly. Some are straight, some are wavy, some are curly and some are kinky. Of course we know that wavy and kinky are forms of curl, but nevertheless the hair’s properties are quite different. I feel that a lot of women of color now want to erroneously identify with curly because it makes them feel better. And that should not be the purpose of going natural. Going natural should be about accepting your hair AS IT IS and making an honest assessment of it. There is some escapism, I feel, in using the term curly as an umbrella term. Wavy hair has its own characteristics and they are different than curly. Kinky hair has its very own beautiful personality and it is different than curly hair. In any case, I think you 4b ladies should be proud of hell of what you have – I have seen some GORGEOUS heads of 4b and mouth-dropping fros – when hair is nourished properly. And what about dreads and twists? I have seen some beautiful manes….


    Your last post was on point, but I'm not sure I agree with this one. Yes, we are kind of left out in the curl definition thing, but it's not a "I wish my hair could do that" type of thing, but "wow, I can't even use 90% of these tips on this website" thing. Also, just because our curls are tight and don't clump together doesn't mean we don't have any at all. I know you said that kinky hair is formed from curly hair, but to not refer to it as curly, imo, is like saying that lemonade doesn't have lemons. I not going to sit here and deny that kinky hair is different from looser curls, but at the end of the day, it's still curly (although insanely tight).

    Nevertheless, I still love it.
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