CurlTalk

Do People of Color Really Have Different Hair ?

*Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users
Apparently, certain people feel that people of color have some sort of anomally type hair.

For instance.. curly hair is supposedly "unique" in some minds and these same minds are of the opinion that 4a hair and down is not curly hair at all but kinky which is supposed to be something different entirely.

And they both need to be taken care of differently BASED on the fact that one is curly and one is kinky.

IE: Mixed race people have "curly hair" and I guess others that are of color but not "mixed per se" have kinky hair.

So I wanted to ask here what people of color think about that..that actually have 4a-4c hair type. I'm asking in this section because it's obvious in the hair sections this is where most of the people in the 3c-4c range congregate the most.

Here's my take: It's Bull. First of all I don't see how on earth 4 category hair isn't curly. It sometimes coils, some have round curls, some have spirals, some have what look like loops. But all of that is still technically a curl..it may not be a defined curl in every case..but a curl no less. The only reason I call it "kinky" because the curls aren't as defined and not because I don't believe it's actually curly hair.

And there IS NO SUCH THING as "mixed race" or "biracial" hair. Hair is just hair mainly made up of the same stuff..keratin. The care of the hair has to do with knowing porosity, texture, and overall density..because hair typing really says nothing about how to care for the hair. It just gives a description on how the hair looks. And it doesn't matter if the curly hair falls into the "curly" description or "kinky" description.

I don't know.. I'd like some input..I mean is that what other people of color believe too around here or am I just wrong ? And if you do feel I am incorrect please tell me why. I'm a big girl.. I can take it.
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Comments

  • princessai16princessai16 Posts: 125Registered Users
    Yes I agree. There definetly is no such thing as mixed hair. And there is certainly other races in this world besides black that have kinky hair.
    And NO you don't have to be mixed to have curly hair, or even straight hair.
    There are countries in africa where hair is strictly silky curly 3a 3b and 3c, on a occasions there is someone from the 4s.
    I'm not mixed and my hairs curly/kinky.
    And a kinky is a curl...just on steroids :)
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  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users
    .
    And a kinky is a curl...just on steroids :)

    LoL! What a cute way to put it! I guess I just don't see how a kinky hair isn't "curly". I mean I know people go through these acts about hair types..

    And this could be just in my experience..but every single natural haired person in the 4a-4c range that I have seen in real life OR in photos..always have "curls". They just aren't as well definited but if one was to pull out a few strands of their hair..they'd see without a doubt a definite curl pattern there.

    Or are there some hair types in the 4a-4c range that have no curl whatsoever ? That's something I didn't think about..but even if they are..still wouldn't the majority of people in the 4 category in general still technically have "curly" hair ?

    I've probably confused everyone now...
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  • BekkaPooBekkaPoo Posts: 3,861Registered Users
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.answers.com%2FQ%2FWhy_do_black_people_have_curly_hair" class="Popup
    "Because we do not produce enough moisture in our scalp for our hair to grow straight, unlike other ethnic groups, so we get relaxers and put oil in our hair so that our hair can stay straight and won't break from damage."

    :confused2:

    This fallacy is corrected further down the page though. I just thought ya'll would get a kick out of this.
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  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users
    BekkaPoo wrote: »
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.answers.com%2FQ%2FWhy_do_black_people_have_curly_hair" class="Popup
    "Because we do not produce enough moisture in our scalp for our hair to grow straight, unlike other ethnic groups, so we get relaxers and put oil in our hair so that our hair can stay straight and won't break from damage."

    :confused2:

    This fallacy is corrected further down the page though. I just thought ya'll would get a kick out of this.


    LOL! Well that does go to show there is a lot of ignorance out there about curly hair in general..that's why I appreciate boards like this, people like Tiffany Anderson, and other curly hair experts that have helped tons of people understand the proper care of curly hair even if people don't know exactly WHY their hair is curly. :)

    I'm also glad that a more informed person actually answered the question properly because if that answer would have been left like it was.. I bet plenty of people would have believed it.
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  • CerendipityCerendipity Posts: 5,091Registered Users
    Ive seen some folks with a cloud of hair, no kinks , no bends, no curls , no spirals. That person to me is a 4B... aka 4C which is meant for Cloud of Napps .

    Ive seen some people with really tiny curls and coils only from close up but from far away looks to be 4B..... I consider that person a 4a.

    I think until you get into the cloud type hair 4b then it becomes kinky. Thats my take on hair typing if you go by the Walker system.
  • murrrcatmurrrcat Posts: 9,596Registered Users
    no you guys are wrong, we mixed people all have the same hair type. NO ONE unless they too are mixed can understand a mixed persons hair. We mixeds have had enough. We would like our OWN hair care section in the walmarts and kmarts, ONLY for mixed people, because we all have the same hair. :protest: YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND OUR HAIR NEVER WE ARE SO UNIQUE WE ARE SO UNIQUE AND DIFFICULT FOR BOTH BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND!! :goofy:



    :laughing5:
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  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users
    Ive seen some folks with a cloud of hair, no kinks , no bends, no curls , no spirals. That person to me is a 4B... aka 4C which is meant for Cloud of Napps .

    Ive seen some people with really tiny curls and coils only from close up but from far away looks to be 4B..... I consider that person a 4a.

    I think until you get into the cloud type hair 4b then it becomes kinky. Thats my take on hair typing if you go by the Walker system.


    Oh.. I thought the cloud of hair was curls too.. like I guess I don't see how it can be a cloud with no curls..cause isn't a cloud of hair basically an afro.. like in the 70's that a lot of people wore ? And their hair was curly wasn't it ?

    Not saying you are incorrect..just saying I always thought that was actually curly hair too. Just undefined curls. Cause I didn't think it could get into an afro if it wasn't curly.

    Honestly, now that you said that.. I don't know.
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  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users
    turtles wrote: »
    no you guys are wrong, we mixed people all have the same hair type. NO ONE unless they too are mixed can understand a mixed persons hair. We mixeds have had enough. We would like our OWN hair care section in the walmarts and kmarts, ONLY for mixed people, because we all have the same hair. :protest: YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND OUR HAIR NEVER WE ARE SO UNIQUE WE ARE SO UNIQUE AND DIFFICULT FOR BOTH BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND!! :goofy:



    :laughing5:


    Now how did I know little Miss Turtles would come in here with something like that.. ROFL!

    I gotta laugh...cause that is just how extreme it can get with certain mixed people. Clearly, not all of us though. But I've seen some mixed people act like their curly hair is some special type of hair that people that aren't mixed just can't understand. And I'm like.. "Dude(or Dudette) it's just hair..you ain't special"... ROFL!
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  • CerendipityCerendipity Posts: 5,091Registered Users
    Ive seen some folks with a cloud of hair, no kinks , no bends, no curls , no spirals. That person to me is a 4B... aka 4C which is meant for Cloud of Napps .

    Ive seen some people with really tiny curls and coils only from close up but from far away looks to be 4B..... I consider that person a 4a.

    I think until you get into the cloud type hair 4b then it becomes kinky. Thats my take on hair typing if you go by the Walker system.


    Oh.. I thought the cloud of hair was curls too.. like I guess I don't see how it can be a cloud with no curls..cause isn't a cloud of hair basically an afro.. like in the 70's that a lot of people wore ? And their hair was curly wasn't it ?

    Not saying you are incorrect..just saying I always thought that was actually curly hair too. Just undefined curls. Cause I didn't think it could get into an afro if it wasn't curly.

    Honestly, now that you said that.. I don't know.


    I can mimic 4b hair when my hair is brushed out, when I pull apart the hair , there isnt a curl , kink or bend anywhere , it looks just like cotton.

    well my cousins hair is like that 24-7 , no matter if its wet, with product or without. When wet it looks like a heavy patch of cotton. She has some of the baddest twists, and her styles last longer because her hair is moldable but there isnt a curl , coil, wavy anywhere on her head. Shes never used heat indirect or direct. Shes also Dominican. ( just to bring up the race issue) We bother transitioned at the same time. I'm half Dominican and Jamaican. I'm a 4a. I can mimic her hair but as soon as my hair gets wet it curls back up. It baffled her for awhile because she thought her hair would curl up and my hair wouldnt.
  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users
    I can mimic 4b hair when my hair is brushed out, when I pull apart the hair , there isnt a curl , kink or bend anywhere , it looks just like cotton.

    well my cousins hair is like that 24-7 , no matter if its wet, with product or without. When wet it looks like a heavy patch of cotton. She has some of the baddest twists, and her styles last longer because her hair is moldable but there isnt a curl , coil, wavy anywhere on her head. Shes never used heat indirect or direct. Shes also Dominican. ( just to bring up the race issue) We bother transitioned at the same time. I'm half Dominican and Jamaican. I'm a 4a. I can mimic her hair but as soon as my hair gets wet it curls back up. It baffled her for awhile because she thought her hair would curl up and my hair wouldnt.

    Oh okay I see what you are saying. I guess all these years I just thought that sort of hair was curly just undefined curls... I guess I was mistaken.

    So basically 4a hair can mimic 4b or 4c hair if brushed out but 4b and 4c can't mimic 4a hair.

    In any event.. I'm still of the opinion that not all kinky hair can be labeled "not curly" though. I always just thought a kink was a very small in diameter curl. And that it starts with 4a's because of how small the curls are..

    One of my cousin's has some of the smallest circle curls I've ever seen..and when you pull out a strand of his hair and put in in the palm of your hand.. it's an O shaped curl. And it was always understood that his hair is kinky but still curly cause he has curls they are just very little. It's only called kinky cause of how tiny the curls are..
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  • CerendipityCerendipity Posts: 5,091Registered Users
    I can mimic 4b hair when my hair is brushed out, when I pull apart the hair , there isnt a curl , kink or bend anywhere , it looks just like cotton.

    well my cousins hair is like that 24-7 , no matter if its wet, with product or without. When wet it looks like a heavy patch of cotton. She has some of the baddest twists, and her styles last longer because her hair is moldable but there isnt a curl , coil, wavy anywhere on her head. Shes never used heat indirect or direct. Shes also Dominican. ( just to bring up the race issue) We bother transitioned at the same time. I'm half Dominican and Jamaican. I'm a 4a. I can mimic her hair but as soon as my hair gets wet it curls back up. It baffled her for awhile because she thought her hair would curl up and my hair wouldnt.

    Oh okay I see what you are saying. I guess all these years I just thought that sort of hair was curly just undefined curls... I guess I was mistaken.

    So basically 4a hair can mimic 4b or 4c hair if brushed out but 4b and 4c can't mimic 4a hair.

    In any event.. I'm still of the opinion that not all kinky hair can be labeled "not curly" though. I always just thought a kink was a very small in diameter curl. And that it starts with 4a's because of how small the curls are..

    One of my cousin's has some of the smallest circle curls I've ever seen..and when you pull out a strand of his hair and put in in the palm of your hand.. it's an O shaped curl. And it was always understood that his hair is kinky but still curly cause he has curls they are just very little. It's only called kinky cause of how tiny the curls are..[/quote]


    I agree with alla that!
  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Posts: 6,446Registered Users
    @Marah and Shawny - I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down! I totally agree. I call hair curly and only refer to kinky hair as hair without a defined curl pattern, BUT, it's still curly hair.

    The whole "mixed hair" concept is one based on ignorance, but I don't think we can fully blame people. It's mainly society and the fact that many Black women have relaxers so we don't see their curl patterns as much.

    ETA: I forgot to add...I actually wrote an article on the Coil Review about Black women and hair pattern awhile ago, and a few people posted and said that if you have curlier hair that means you have white in you b/c it relaxed the kinks some. I was like uhhh what?

    Hopefully as more women go natural :tongue5:, people will begin to understand that you don't have to be mixed to have curly hair!
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  • ktip_naturalchicaktip_naturalchica Posts: 72Registered Users
    @ellle: Boy, some people's perceptions can be really interesting...I mean, how can you say that non-defined hair turns into curls just because you may have a white person in your family (somewhere down the line for non-mixed people)??? If you look at the world, there are a ton of different textures on all different types of people, lol!

    Anyway, I think that what I call my hair, only based on Andre's system is mainly 4a. Now, I definitely don't subscribe to this typing system because it does nothing for my hair in terms of hair care. But I do still consider my hair curly, no matter how small the actual curl. Sometimes, it won't want to hold a twist for nothing, lol. So Marah, I agree with you.
  • AmberBrownAmberBrown Posts: 1,072Registered Users
    My hair has curls in it. Despite that fact, I don't call my hair curly.....because I associate curls with white people (KANYESHRUG you guys!!!!! I'm just trying to be completely honest lol). I know too many black people that call their (curly or non-curly) hair curly in order to seem "less black" for me to feel truly comfortable calling my hair anything other than nappy.

    I know many of you ladies feel that's a dirty word, but I grew up in a house where it simply represented the hair that grew out of my head as a little black girl. I'd think it was strange if a white girl with curly hair called her hair straight, just as I do when a black girl with nappy hair calls her hair curly.

    The other side of the coin is that most black folks I know don't have any curl pattern at all. Appearance wise their hair is more straight than anything else. It just happens to grow up/out instead of down ;) I feel like a lot of black women that go natural think there's something wrong with their hair when they first start out because they're bombarded with the idea that black hair is curly....when their hair doesn't resemble any curl they've ever seen before.

    ....Disclaimer: Please don't attack me :) I don't go around telling people what to name their flipping hair, nor do I go around "correcting" people when they call me curly :D See? I'm harmless!
  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Posts: 6,446Registered Users
    AmberBrown wrote: »
    My hair has curls in it. Despite that fact, I don't call my hair curly.....because I associate curls with white people (KANYESHRUG you guys!!!!! I'm just trying to be completely honest lol). I know too many black people that call their (curly or non-curly) hair curly in order to seem "less black" for me to feel truly comfortable calling my hair anything other than nappy.

    I know many of you ladies feel that's a dirty word, but I grew up in a house where it simply represented the hair that grew out of my head as a little black girl. I'd think it was strange if a white girl with curly hair called her hair straight, just as I do when a black girl with nappy hair calls her hair curly.

    The other side of the coin is that most black folks I know don't have any curl pattern at all. Appearance wise their hair is more straight than anything else. It just happens to grow up/out instead of down ;) I feel like a lot of black women that go natural think there's something wrong with hair when they first start out because they're bombarded with the idea that black hair is curly....when their hair doesn't resemble any curl they've ever seen before.

    ....Disclaimer: Please don't attack me :) I don't go around telling people what to name their flipping hair, nor do I go around "correcting" people when they call me curly :D See? I'm harmless!

    LOL! I don't think anyone will attack you (although I don't agree, kanye shrug!). But you said your opinion in a modest manner, and I'm cool with it.

    Quick question out of curiousity - Were you natural as a little girl too? Just wondering...I feel like when I was little my parents called my hair nappy then my mom relaxed it in order to "fix" it, so that's why I don't really like that word. If you used the word nappy and were allowed to keep your hair in its natural state, I understand where you're coming from.
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  • AmberBrownAmberBrown Posts: 1,072Registered Users
    ellepixie wrote: »
    AmberBrown wrote: »
    My hair has curls in it. Despite that fact, I don't call my hair curly.....because I associate curls with white people (KANYESHRUG you guys!!!!! I'm just trying to be completely honest lol). I know too many black people that call their (curly or non-curly) hair curly in order to seem "less black" for me to feel truly comfortable calling my hair anything other than nappy.

    I know many of you ladies feel that's a dirty word, but I grew up in a house where it simply represented the hair that grew out of my head as a little black girl. I'd think it was strange if a white girl with curly hair called her hair straight, just as I do when a black girl with nappy hair calls her hair curly.

    The other side of the coin is that most black folks I know don't have any curl pattern at all. Appearance wise their hair is more straight than anything else. It just happens to grow up/out instead of down ;) I feel like a lot of black women that go natural think there's something wrong with hair when they first start out because they're bombarded with the idea that black hair is curly....when their hair doesn't resemble any curl they've ever seen before.

    ....Disclaimer: Please don't attack me :) I don't go around telling people what to name their flipping hair, nor do I go around "correcting" people when they call me curly :D See? I'm harmless!

    LOL! I don't think anyone will attack you (although I don't agree, kanye shrug!). But you said your opinion in a modest manner, and I'm cool with it.

    Quick question out of curiousity - Were you natural as a little girl too? Just wondering...I feel like when I was little my parents called my hair nappy then my mom relaxed it in order to "fix" it, so that's why I don't really like that word. If you used the word nappy and were allowed to keep your hair in its natural state, I understand where you're coming from.

    Yep! I've been natural my whole life and my mom called my hair nappy when she thought it was looking good and when she thought it needed to be redone. And I didn't start hot combing until my 8th grade graduation (I had to go to battle for that first press n curl lol I had note cards to help me remember my "well reasoned" arguments) and after that I was lucky to get it done twice a year.
  • rachelolivia2010rachelolivia2010 Posts: 372Registered Users
    Yeah...i have 4a hair. Some of it curls straight from the root into "O's" (Spiral), some waves then curls into "O's", and then some just don't curl at all, those are my "S's". But my hair is still technically "curly", but people would look at me funny if i called my hair curly. But I have the Curly Girl book and i had brought it to class, and there are 3 curly girls (not including me) who were looking at the book. One of the girls, asked me why I had the book. I wanted to just slap someone. That, to me, was the dumbest thing. Obviously my hair curls, otherwise I would not have the hair that I do. :angry7: Ignorance sometimes gets on my nerves. Mixed people's hair isn't different at all. A lot of the time it is in fact looser, but sometimes so is "African-American" hair too. Their hair can be 4c and below, just like "African-American" hair can be 4c and below. And 3c hair can be kinky too and you can have not very kinky 4a hair. I've seen it. Just sayin... :smile:
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  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Posts: 6,446Registered Users
    AmberBrown wrote: »
    ellepixie wrote: »
    AmberBrown wrote: »
    My hair has curls in it. Despite that fact, I don't call my hair curly.....because I associate curls with white people (KANYESHRUG you guys!!!!! I'm just trying to be completely honest lol). I know too many black people that call their (curly or non-curly) hair curly in order to seem "less black" for me to feel truly comfortable calling my hair anything other than nappy.

    I know many of you ladies feel that's a dirty word, but I grew up in a house where it simply represented the hair that grew out of my head as a little black girl. I'd think it was strange if a white girl with curly hair called her hair straight, just as I do when a black girl with nappy hair calls her hair curly.

    The other side of the coin is that most black folks I know don't have any curl pattern at all. Appearance wise their hair is more straight than anything else. It just happens to grow up/out instead of down ;) I feel like a lot of black women that go natural think there's something wrong with hair when they first start out because they're bombarded with the idea that black hair is curly....when their hair doesn't resemble any curl they've ever seen before.

    ....Disclaimer: Please don't attack me :) I don't go around telling people what to name their flipping hair, nor do I go around "correcting" people when they call me curly :D See? I'm harmless!

    LOL! I don't think anyone will attack you (although I don't agree, kanye shrug!). But you said your opinion in a modest manner, and I'm cool with it.

    Quick question out of curiousity - Were you natural as a little girl too? Just wondering...I feel like when I was little my parents called my hair nappy then my mom relaxed it in order to "fix" it, so that's why I don't really like that word. If you used the word nappy and were allowed to keep your hair in its natural state, I understand where you're coming from.

    Yep! I've been natural my whole life and my mom called my hair nappy when she thought it was looking good and when she thought it needed to be redone. And I didn't start hot combing until my 8th grade graduation (I had to go to battle for that first press n curl lol I had note cards to help me remember my "well reasoned" arguments) and after that I was lucky to get it done twice a year.

    LOL! Yea, that's cool. I feel you.
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  • Melanie_LinnMelanie_Linn Posts: 457Registered Users
    I totally agree with Marah! But I do have on question. Why is hair that is medium in strand texture seen as coars in the black community? When I think coarse I think of my sisters boyfriend who is asian, or my mom who has m/c hair as she gets older. When I was little my moms hair was just average "white"(she white) medium. And you know what my hair is a solid medium like my moms was when i was small. But when ever I got my hair relaxed at home or otherwise they treated it like they were relaxing coarse asian hair or something.

    I don't really understand it. Can some one explain it? It seems like any hair that isn't fine in texture is considered coarse.
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  • adthomasadthomas Posts: 5,525Registered Users
    I thought I had curly hair until I went into a salon the other day desperate for a hair product that wouldn't leave residue in my hair. The stylist there corrected me and said "Your hair is actually coily, not curly."
    Yes, it's real. No, you can't touch it. :wav:
  • breathebreathe Posts: 399Registered Users
    adthomas wrote: »
    I thought I had curly hair until I went into a salon the other day desperate for a hair product that wouldn't leave residue in my hair. The stylist there corrected me and said "Your hair is actually coily, not curly."


    But a coil is still a curl...

    I personally think of curly hair as hair that forms spirals/o shapes. Kinky hair to me would be hair that forms S/Z zig-zag shapes. A 4b with spirals would be curly to me, while a 3b with zig zags would be kinky to me. I don't understand why people think that smaller curls = kinky.

    eta: I apparently have a crazy definition of kinky, and I don't know where I got it from! Webster tells me it's a small curl, but I've always thought of the definition applying to machinery... which still doesn't make sense... huh. Ignore me...

    eta2: I've got it! I've always thought of a "kink" in something to be a BEND, like a kink in a wire. Kinks to me are 2D and don't form spirals, while curls to me are 3D and DO form spirals.
    big chop: 03/09/2010.
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    medium/coarse | dense | normal porosity | 4b/3c with random sprinkles of 4a.

  • EllyEllyOxenFreeEllyEllyOxenFree Posts: 6,446Registered Users
    I totally agree with Marah! But I do have on question. Why is hair that is medium in strand texture seen as coars in the black community? When I think coarse I think of my sisters boyfriend who is asian, or my mom who has m/c hair as she gets older. When I was little my moms hair was just average "white"(she white) medium. And you know what my hair is a solid medium like my moms was when i was small. But when ever I got my hair relaxed at home or otherwise they treated it like they were relaxing coarse asian hair or something.

    I don't really understand it. Can some one explain it? It seems like any hair that isn't fine in texture is considered coarse.
    I don't understand your question-how did they treat it like it's coarse? I have all three textures on my head, but I call mine coarse b/c it's always been very tough overall like rope and doesn't break easily...even when relaxed my friends and I used to joke that I could pull a truck with my hair.
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  • *Marah**Marah* Posts: 8,032Registered Users
    I totally agree with Marah! But I do have on question. Why is hair that is medium in strand texture seen as coars in the black community? When I think coarse I think of my sisters boyfriend who is asian, or my mom who has m/c hair as she gets older. When I was little my moms hair was just average "white"(she white) medium. And you know what my hair is a solid medium like my moms was when i was small. But when ever I got my hair relaxed at home or otherwise they treated it like they were relaxing coarse asian hair or something.

    I don't really understand it. Can some one explain it? It seems like any hair that isn't fine in texture is considered coarse.


    THIS is a question that I actually DO know the answer to.. LOL!

    This is a simple case based on the misconception of what texture actually is and what density actually is..

    Coarse (another word for thick) hair refers to texture. It's a measurement of the diameter of a hair strand. Density refers to how many hairs you have per square inch. A lot of black people have what looks like very dense hair..it's packed very close together. So it can look extremely thick.

    The truth is most black people in fact do not have coarse hair (some do but most do not). Asians usually have the thickest hair strands meaning their hair is more coarse than most. That's not a race versus race issue. It's a fact that's been proven. And any trichologist will tell you that.

    When black people (or others) look at another black person's natural hair (particularly if it's tightly curled/kinky) when they say that person has thick hair..they are actually refering to the density in most cases because of how it looks to them.

    But because so many people mix up what texture and density actually are or don't even know the proper definitions an easy broad way to cover how the hair looks to them is to say.."it's coarse".

    Black people are not alone in this assumption about black people's hair. Believe it or not actual hair stylists that do not know their stuff about the actual properties of hair but just know how to style it OFTEN call hair that is not coarse.. coarse. Same thing with other groups that see blacks with their natural hair..because of how it looks they think it's coarse.

    It's simply not possible to know someone has coarse hair by just merely glancing at it.. you would really need to examine some individual strands of their hair to determine whether it's fine, medium, or coarse. And that's by looking at it very closely and actually touching it to see if it feels thick (coarse), fine, or medium.

    Hope that helps you out.
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  • NappNapp Posts: 180Registered Users
    to answer the topic question. i would say yes. its not really all about the curl patttern but more about the texture. i dont know if i can type my thoughts eloquently enough but i will try.

    something i noticed is that people of looser curls tend to have a similar range of texture charecteristics but the more curly the hair the more texture variations. no matter how big and bushy a 3a/b can be when dry it will cling close to the scalp like a 1a or a 2a when wet. on the other hand a 4a can either cling like a looser curl or resist gravity like a tighter one...i forgot where i was going with this but i hope this will explain what im thinking

    type 1-mostly X or Y texture
    type 2 -mostly X or Y texture
    type 3- mostly X or Y sometimes Z texture
    typ 4-sometimes X or Y, mostly Z,ZZ texture

    going from this structure one who has say type 3 hair with Y texture could look at a person with 4 hair with Xor Y texture and see that it is similar but just smaller but that doesnt take into account the Z and ZZ texture that are more prevalent.

    this is just a whole bunch of speculation and opinion but this is my answer. i hope it makes sense lol
  • SuburbanbushbabeSuburbanbushbabe Posts: 15,402Registered Users
    All these distinctions remind me of the octoroon / macaroon, whatever color distinction in old NOLA. Whether it's a cloud of 4c hair, a bunch of s-waves, a penspring, a pencil-sized, botticelli, a barely 2a - whatever - I call it curly.
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    Playing with my hair is a hobby. Fluffy, fine natural 4a. Goal= Healthy, beautiful hair that retains its length.
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  • Melanie_LinnMelanie_Linn Posts: 457Registered Users
    ellepixie wrote: »
    I totally agree with Marah! But I do have on question. Why is hair that is medium in strand texture seen as coars in the black community? When I think coarse I think of my sisters boyfriend who is asian, or my mom who has m/c hair as she gets older. When I was little my moms hair was just average "white"(she white) medium. And you know what my hair is a solid medium like my moms was when i was small. But when ever I got my hair relaxed at home or otherwise they treated it like they were relaxing coarse asian hair or something.

    I don't really understand it. Can some one explain it? It seems like any hair that isn't fine in texture is considered coarse.
    I don't understand your question-how did they treat it like it's coarse? I have all three textures on my head, but I call mine coarse b/c it's always been very tough overall like rope and doesn't break easily...even when relaxed my friends and I used to joke that I could pull a truck with my hair.

    I meant that it seems to me that hair that is actually medium in strand texture is treated like it is coarse by stylist. I was just wondering why it was treated like it was corse when it isn't?

    For example my older sis had done my relaxers for years, she would buy relaxers for "coarse" hair to do mine. My hair in actuallity is medium textured. She would also leave it on for the max amount of time on the box, because my hair was "coarse."


    Marah- Thank you. You actually answered my question. What you say makes sense to me.
    3c/4aMCiii normal/low porosity med elasticty

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  • arkanfinearkanfine Posts: 209Registered Users
    Speaking of kinky vs. curly. A customer on my job (Caucasian) came up to me while working and says, "I love your curly hair." and this older black woman that works with me say's, "What do you mean curly? Her hair isn't curly. Do you mean kinky-curly?" I was so floored that I didn't know what to say immediately. I just stood there with my mouth open looking confused along with customer who complimented me as she grabs my hand while she says," I just want you to know that your hair is beautiful."
    I waited til later to go tell her (the old skool hater that is) that it has been hard enough for black women to be complimented on their natural beauty. The next time she hears a black woman receiving a compliment, just smile and nod.
    I later hear telling another co-worker that she should not have cut her hair because it doesn't curl up like that other girls does.
    I swear if I saw her in the street I would hesitate on hitting my brakes.
    :sad3:
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    LOIS:OS thick strands w/ thready texture
    Porosity:non-porous

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  • hippychichippychic Posts: 4,673Registered Users
    arkanfine wrote: »
    Speaking of kinky vs. curly. A customer on my job (Caucasian) came up to me while working and says, "I love your curly hair." and this older black woman that works with me say's, "What do you mean curly? Her hair isn't curly. Do you mean kinky-curly?" I was so floored that I didn't know what to say immediately. I just stood there with my mouth open looking confused along with customer who complimented me as she grabs my hand while she says," I just want you to know that your hair is beautiful."
    I waited til later to go tell her (the old skool hater that is) that it has been hard enough for black women to be complimented on their natural beauty. The next time she hears a black woman receiving a compliment, just smile and nod.
    I later hear telling another co-worker that she should not have cut her hair because it doesn't curl up like that other girls does.
    I swear if I saw her in the street I would hesitate on hitting my brakes.
    :sad3:
    was the older black woman natural also? was she saying she shouldn't have cut her hair?
    LOIS (OS); cottony, TYPE 4 hair, fine/med strands; no cones bcz my hair hates them; last relaxer '98; now low porosity:?, ignores most natural hair rules; BC #8

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  • HipsterSoulHipsterSoul Posts: 1,017Registered Users
    If it isn't straight or wavy, it's curly.

    To black people, If it doesn't have curls without alot of product, it's kinky.And even with alot of product, it still looks like acloud, it's still kinky.

    Kinky is a term used to describe tightly coiled hair, by any group of people.
    To non blacks, tight hair(Julianna margueles)Is kinky because it's very tight, almost Afro-like.
    Curly is the term for all non straight hair. All the other terms are subcategories.
  • ms_clawedms_clawed Posts: 57Registered Users
    This is a great topic but one that confuses me. I think many of us are confused and JUST starting to really learn the TRUTH. For so long we have been basing things off of guessing, opinions, visual cues(that are apparently misleading) but no real facts. We've been taught so much misinformation we don't know what we are doing.

    IMO, we have just started publicly talking about these things. We're questioning things in ways that we didn't in the past. I mean I know the 70's had a brief period of challenging beauty standards but this time around we are armed with access to more information.

    Also there's so rules attached to blackness that trying to challenge anything is often seen(or accused) of not accepting yourself for what you are. I think this mentality plays a big part in why so many blacks don't challenge the status quo, who wants to be accused of trying to be a wanna be? Which is also why many people will say KINKY IS NOT CURLY and there are all these rules about what's curly or not.

    It's why I changed my hair description from COILY rather than curly. I don't want anyone looking at me(or my avi) and saying "who does this bish think she's fooling!?" You know we are quick to accuse(or suspect) someone of trying not to be black!
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