I know my hair likes protein...

plunkybugplunkybug Posts: 2,526Registered Users
...at least it likes SS RPT...so I am wondering, should I be looking for a low poo and condish with protein as well, or would it be sufficient to use a leave in (or spray in the case of SS) with protein instead? One line I am looking at, Kogi Naturals (a local brand), has coconut oil in both low poo and condish. I'm not sure that would be adequate protein on it's own, but I don't know. I've tried a hair and body pack with coconut oil base, and I am unsure of what I think of it, to be honest. Another line I am looking at, Live Clean (a national Canadian brand) I don't think has protein, but I can't find a substantive product list online for the Purple Jewel line...the low poo and condish might not have protein, though maybe the mousse or spray gel does?? I'll have to check when I go to the drug store again. Alternately, I was looking at Joico K-Pak at a local salon recently, and the guy directed me to L'Anza products instead (he said they were better)...there is tons of protein in the ones he showed me (keratin), and they looked CG (I don't think all of their stuff is though). He pointed out the leave in to me. My inner PJ is itching, and while I want some SS and CJ (to try) really bad, I can't get it locally, and I am not in a position to order online right now, unless I barter. That said, I am making my birthday wish list very SS heavy. :P

Any thoughts?

Here's the Kogi Naturals shampoo:

http://www.koginaturals.com/shop/skin-care/hair-rosemarymint-shampoo.html

and the conditioner:

http://www.koginaturals.com/shop/skin-care/hair-rosemarymint-conditioner.html

I'm debating about getting the unscented, so I don't have to worry about weird scent combinations with the stylers...somehow, I can't picture rosemary mint with the sweet fruity smell of HEBE or SS CEJ/FHG which I hope I will be able to get eventually since I like it better than HEBE.

The Live Clean Purple Jewel line for wavies

There is a mousse and spray gel too. I'm thinking also about the Argan Oil line...

The Argan Oil line...

Argan Oil is supposed to be good for the hair. I have the Smooth and Shine Cream, but I think it is less a curl cream, and more a straight hair smoother. The scent would be compatible with the other Live Clean stylers.

The L'Anza Leave In I was thinking about:

http://www.lanza.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=37&catid=11&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Leave-In%20Protector

I don't know about the smell...I've forgotten what it smelled like. I think it was fairly neutral.

Thoughts anyone?


Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showpost.php?p=1252125&postcount=59

Comments

  • pedahehpedaheh Posts: 4,812Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Here are some of my thoughts.

    Coconut oil takes 10 minutes to make its way into the hair's cortex. I don't think you would get the full protein retaining benefits from a low poo.
    Protein takes a little while to get into the hair as well. I think it's benefits would also be lost in a low poo.

    I think protein would be most effective in the products that are left on your hair like leave ins and stylers. Protein a rinse out is probably a good idea if your hair likes that much protein and you can afford it.

    The kogi condish seems very oil heavy. That said, all the oils are reportedly good ones.
    http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
    2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
    Cowash: Tresemme naturals
    Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
    Curl enhancer: FSG
    Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
    PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
    Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
  • plunkybugplunkybug Posts: 2,526Registered Users
    Thanks Ped! So, what do you think about the beeswax in the Kogi condish? Do you think that could be an issue? Also, what do you think is the cleansing agent in the Kogi shampoo? The coconut oil? The girl in the shop said she thought the Kogi was lighter than the Lloyd's. It might be better for me with my fine hair.

    I did pick up the travel sizes of the Live Clean Fresh Water, which is their moisturizing line. It's the only one they had, so I thought it would give me some idea as to whether I might try the Purple Jewel or Argan Oil line.


    Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

    2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

    Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

    Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showpost.php?p=1252125&postcount=59

  • pedahehpedaheh Posts: 4,812Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I don't know anything about beeswax.
    My low poo knowledge is lacking. I'd never heard of that cleanser. It took me a second to spot it. Wish I could help.
    http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
    2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
    Cowash: Tresemme naturals
    Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
    Curl enhancer: FSG
    Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
    PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
    Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
  • plunkybugplunkybug Posts: 2,526Registered Users
    Kogi Naturals is a local brand made in Chemainus, BC. I say local, but Chemainus is actually about an hour away.


    Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

    2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

    Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

    Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showpost.php?p=1252125&postcount=59

  • plunkybugplunkybug Posts: 2,526Registered Users
    Ok, so I squinted to see the ingredients on the tiny travel bottles, so there might be a mistake, but here they are.

    Live Clean (Fresh Water)

    Moisturizing shampoo:

    Aqua (purified water), with certified organic botanicals: camelia sinensis (white tea) extract, lavendula angustifolia (lavender) extract, chamomilla recutita (matricorio) flower extract, rosmarinus officinalis (rosemary) leaf extract -- sodium methyl 2-sulfolaurate/disodium 2-sulfolaurate/sodium lauryl sulfoacetate (coconut and palm derived), cocamidopropyl betaine, glycol distearate, coco glucoside, glyceryl oleate, glyceryl stearate, retinyl palmitate (vitamin A palmitate), tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E acetate), glycerin, panthenol (provitamin B5), parfum, sodium hydroxymethylglycinate, polyquaternium-10, sodium benzoate, citric acid, cl 60730, cl 42090

    Moisturizing conditioner:

    Aqua (purified water), with certified organic botanicals: camelia sinensis (white tea) extract, lavendula angustifolia (lavender) extract, chamomilla recutita (matricorio) flower extract, rosmarinus officinalis (rosemary) leaf extract -- cetrimonium chloride, cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, glycerin, quaternium-18, polysorbate 60,tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E acetate), panthenol (provitamin B5), parfum, phenoxyethanol, sodium benzoate, citric acid

    The Kogi Naturals, for comparison:

    Rosemary Mint shampoo:

    Certified organic chamomile, nettle, dandelion leaf, potassium oleate, coconut oil, vegetable glycerin, peppermint essential oil, rosemary essential oil and botanical tree essences of pine and western red cedar.


    Rosemary Mint conditioner:

    Ingredients:
    Purified water, certified organic chamomile, nettle leaf, dandelion leaf, emulsified coconut and palm kernel oils, beeswax, apple cider vinegar, organic extra virgin olive oil, pumpkin seed oil, botanical tree essences of pine and western red cedar

    The unscented version is pretty much the same, minus the rosemary and mint essential oils. But I was thinking of trying to get my husband to try this, and the oils would be good for his scalp.


    Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

    2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

    Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

    Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showpost.php?p=1252125&postcount=59

  • pedahehpedaheh Posts: 4,812Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Again, I don't know much about this stuff, but here are my thoughts.
    First of all, when a product lists things like rosemary and nettles as then 2nd and 3rd ingredients, that is not exactly true. What they mean is that they made a tea with those ingredients. If rosemary, nettles, etc. really were the 2nd-5th ingredients, the conditioner would be paste like. Companies do this all the time to make their products seem more natural. Take the live clean moisturizing conditioner.
    Moisturizing conditioner:

    Aqua (purified water), with certified organic botanicals: camelia sinensis (white tea) extract, lavendula angustifolia (lavender) extract, chamomilla recutita (matricorio) flower extract, rosmarinus officinalis (rosemary) leaf extract -- cetrimonium chloride, cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, glycerin, quaternium-18, polysorbate 60,tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E acetate), panthenol (provitamin B5), parfum, phenoxyethanol, sodium benzoate, citric acid
    The ingredients are more accurately:

    Water, cetrimonium chloride, cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, glycerin, quaternium-18, polysorbate 60,tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E acetate), panthenol (provitamin B5), parfum, phenoxyethanol, sodium benzoate, citric acid, camelia sinensis (white tea) extract, lavendula angustifolia (lavender) extract, chamomilla recutita (matricorio) flower extract, rosmarinus officinalis (rosemary) leaf extract

    Conditioners are 50-80% water. They are composed almost entirely of the first five ingredients. The first five are (there is debate whether to include water or not when counting, so I won't)

    Water, cetrimonium chloride, cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, glycerin, quaternium-18

    IMHO I don't think this is a very special list of ingredients, and I wouldn't pay extra for this conditioner.


    I don't know much about low poos. The live clean has panthenol. Some people who are easily over conditioned have issues with this ingredient. (See Solid Gold's low poo review on AlexJJ's blog The Wavy Tales.) This also has polyquat 10. It occurs to me that if you use products with polyquat 10, a shampoo that contains polyquat 10 might not be able to remove that polyquat efficiently. I wouldn't be too concerned about either of these.

    The Kogi Naturals shampoo is very oil heavy which should make it moisturizing. I've never heard of that particular surficant. Use in combination with the Kogi conditioner, you would have a very oil heavy routine. The rosemary conditioner does seem to have more special ingredients in it for your money. I have no idea which products would actually work better.
    http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
    2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
    Cowash: Tresemme naturals
    Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
    Curl enhancer: FSG
    Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
    PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
    Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
  • cambedcambed Posts: 101Registered Users
    How can you tell if your hair likes or doesn't like proteins and what does that mean?
  • plunkybugplunkybug Posts: 2,526Registered Users
    Simply put, it gets real curly. :)

    Some people find protein dries their hair out, however, you should always follow a pt with a dt, or at least some moisture. I can use SS RPT as a leave in, just a mutant pea sized blob, and it won't dry me out.


    Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

    2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

    Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

    Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showpost.php?p=1252125&postcount=59

  • plunkybugplunkybug Posts: 2,526Registered Users
    Ok, so today I was at the mall where the store that carries the Kogi is, and the Rosemary Mint smells great, but strong. I don't know what stylers I could use that wouldn't make it like mixing milk and orange juice together. If I got it I could probably use it when I do nothing (if I ever end up doing nothing), or I suppose I could just use the FSG I made which is lavender. I'd have to look around to find things that wouldn't clash too much.


    Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

    2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

    Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

    Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showpost.php?p=1252125&postcount=59

  • cambedcambed Posts: 101Registered Users
    plunkybug wrote: »
    Simply put, it gets real curly. :)

    Some people find protein dries their hair out, however, you should always follow a pt with a dt, or at least some moisture. I can use SS RPT as a leave in, just a mutant pea sized blob, and it won't dry me out.

    My hair gets very, very curly with hard water vs. soft; could that be because of increased protein?
  • plunkybugplunkybug Posts: 2,526Registered Users
    cambed wrote: »
    plunkybug wrote: »
    Simply put, it gets real curly. :)

    Some people find protein dries their hair out, however, you should always follow a pt with a dt, or at least some moisture. I can use SS RPT as a leave in, just a mutant pea sized blob, and it won't dry me out.

    My hair gets very, very curly with hard water vs. soft; could that be because of increased protein?

    I don't think so, but I don't really know. Could be a higher salt content in the hard water?


    Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

    2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

    Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

    Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showpost.php?p=1252125&postcount=59

  • cambedcambed Posts: 101Registered Users
    plunkybug wrote: »


    I don't think so, but I don't really know. Could be a higher salt content in the hard water?

    I would think there is a higher salt content in the the soft water, since salt is used in the water softener. I just know that when we're out of salt, my hair looks great! Feels like straw, plus I itch everywhere and the dishes won't get clean, but my hair looks great!

    What is SS PRT and what are some other products that have high protein?
  • plunkybugplunkybug Posts: 2,526Registered Users
    SS RPT (Spiral Solutions Repairing Protein Treatment)

    http://www.etsy.com/listing/51772058/repairing-protein-treatment-8-oz

    It's made with awesome! So is everything from Spiral Solutions. You can get samples from kathymack. Her Fotki link is in her profile.


    Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

    2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

    Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

    Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showpost.php?p=1252125&postcount=59

  • pedahehpedaheh Posts: 4,812Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    How can you tell if your hair likes or doesn't like proteins and what does that mean?
    Read this article. It is about African American hair, but applies to all hair.
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html?cat=69
    In general, fine hair needs protein. Use caution with protein if your hair is coarse and maybe avoid it completely. If your hair is porous, you need protein. (be cautious with coarse hair) and if it is non porous, you probably don't need protein (unless you have fine hair).
    My hair gets very, very curly with hard water
    My hair seems to be a fan of hard water too. It helps my hair curl. I swear, I think the minerals in the hard water help give me hold.:toothy9:
    With a water softener you don't have to be concerned about hard water build up on your hair. So the water softener is probably the smart choice.

    If your hair is not dry, you might want to try homemade epsom salt sprays or rinses. Del2c started a thread in the 2 forum a while ago. Epsom salt adds curl, but drys hair out. My hair is to dry to use them on a regular basis, but I got more curl from the epsom salt rinse.
    http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
    2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
    Cowash: Tresemme naturals
    Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
    Curl enhancer: FSG
    Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
    PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
    Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
  • cambedcambed Posts: 101Registered Users
    pedaheh wrote: »
    My hair seems to be a fan of hard water too. It helps my hair curl. I swear, I think the minerals in the hard water help give me hold.:toothy9:
    With a water softener you don't have to be concerned about hard water build up on your hair. So the water softener is probably the smart choice.

    I think it is the minerals Last night I read up on what makes hard water hard, and magnesium sulfate, which some people use in products to increase curl, is common in hard water. I have a surf spray that's basically ms and water; I might give that a try again.
  • stefflynhstefflynh Posts: 410Registered Users
    I have a giovvani (sp?) leave in protein spray (not conditioner). I actually use this when I feel I need extra protein. I use just a bit after the shower & lately before I put my [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Curl-Junkie-CoffeeCoco-Curl-Creme-p-488.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=curl-junkie-coffeecoco-curl-creme]CCCC[/buylink] lite in since this is more conditioning. I do think the proteing gives me that extra 'umpf', but I def need something conditioning on my hair after or it gets really crunchy....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]properties-3 a\b, very fine, medium density, normal porosity, normal elasticity
    low poo- GTT, 50\50 or whatever I have at hand
    RO- CJBCS, TNVC, Suave Coco
    Stylers-FSG & BRHG
    PT (twice a week)-CJRM, Ion Reconstructor, SSPT

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