Tea Party sympathizers??

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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    LoloDSM wrote: »
    As someone whose entire salary went to pay household taxes for 2009, I can assure you that DH and I do not have "lots of extra money." We earned far less than the $250,000 which supposedly would have made us the rich people who should pay more. DH ran the numbers and if he lost his job, our monthly income would only go down by $1,000 a month because we currently pay so much in taxes. :sign6:


    I don't understand. Your entire yearly salary goes for taxes...and all but $12,000 of your husband's entire yearly salary goes to taxes? :scratch:

    I, too, bristle at the waste and corruption of BOTH parties. The GM bailout was small potatoes though, when compared against the Wallstreet bailouts. Corporate welfare has run amuck in the last couple decades. I'd rather see my tax dollars go to keeping living-wage jobs than to see gamblers...er...um...bankers earn billions in bonus without a hint of shame at what they did to our banking system.
  • LoloDSMLoloDSM Posts: 3,778Registered Users
    LoloDSM wrote: »
    As someone whose entire salary went to pay household taxes for 2009, I can assure you that DH and I do not have "lots of extra money." We earned far less than the $250,000 which supposedly would have made us the rich people who should pay more. DH ran the numbers and if he lost his job, our monthly income would only go down by $1,000 a month because we currently pay so much in taxes. :sign6:


    I don't understand. Your entire yearly salary goes for taxes...and all but $12,000 of your husband's entire yearly salary goes to taxes? :scratch:

    I, too, bristle at the waste and corruption of BOTH parties. The GM bailout was small potatoes though, when compared against the Wallstreet bailouts. Corporate welfare has run amuck in the last couple decades. I'd rather see my tax dollars go to keeping living-wage jobs than to see gamblers...er...um...bankers earn billions in bonus without a hint of shame at what they did to our banking system.

    :scratch: I scratched my head at that too, RCW. And DH is not an accountant, so perhaps I should clarify my statement with that caveat. We essentially live on DH's salary, but according to him, we would be eligible for more deductions (and would avoid the AMT penalty) if he lost his job. I only got a B in income tax, so I'm not the best person to explain or understand it.
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  • ninja dogninja dog Curl Neophyte Posts: 23,780Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Bill Clinton also spoke about the small amount in income tax he owed several years ago; he said it was "ridiculous." I believe, though I can't verify this with an economist, that the thinking is that the lower the tax on certain types of wealth, the greater the incentive to promote industry, business, etc., i.e., "trickle-down" theory. The key being reinvestment in the economy.

    And.....I disagree that the tea-baggers, as described by the polls cited here, are racists. I think they're classist, which is different. They're in a place of privilege (often created by their ancestors, no matter how recent), and they feel that if "they" made it, anyone can. Or should be able to.

    This is no way a defense of the tea-baggers, just a different perspective. I can't friggin' wait to see the government enact health care that applies to me, ND, personally. The compromises I've made to have any coverage at all have affected my life dramatically, and I'm one of the lucky ones to have access at all.
  • LoloDSMLoloDSM Posts: 3,778Registered Users
    I think part of the reason the wealthy pay lower taxes is because they do not pay income tax unless they have a job. Many of them are wealthy in other ways, and Congress is full of wealthy people who inherited their money, so they are taxed differently than working stiffs like you (GY) and me. Again, I'm not a tax guru, so I don't know all the ins and outs of it.

    I'm not sure why I'm all fired up about this thread. LOL. I'm not a tea bagger and I'm not defending them. Maybe I just understand their beef with taxes.
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I don't like taxes either, but I do think our government should provide certain services, like universal healthcare, like accessible college for all, etc., and that stuff needs to be paid for. Other countries do it...without bankrupting their taxpayers. Why can't we do it without making our deficit into horrifying digits? Seems like there are too many hands in the pie maybe? We've become as gluttonous and wasteful as any government in history.

    I'm holding out hope that Obama and his team can actually fix things a little. Our country was in such a f*cking mess from 8 years of Bush that it's going to take more than a year to shovel things out and improve things. Trickle down doesn't work. It just makes rich people REALLY REALLY REALLY rich.
  • ninja dogninja dog Curl Neophyte Posts: 23,780Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Can any Europeans chime in? It used to be that taxes were higher there, due to government programs; is that still the case? I read a few years ago that France has been able to lower taxes while still maintaining health care for all.
  • BesmeeBesmee Posts: 28Registered Users
    That’s because what you see here is people posting pictures of people holding racist stupid signs and some people claiming they saw/heard things at rallies (they have no proof on video or pictures). Of course you are going to assume these people are the majority. Have you actually ever gone to one? I'm assuming not. I have and I never saw anything like what's being shown here or on the news. Most people were just there laughing, talking, listening, singing, etc. People were all just frustrated. Not angry racist. Of course people are when only 47% of the population is paying taxes. I'm sure my post will be slammed as a racist, Obama hater but whatever I'm used to it. But instead of taking what people say here and on the news as absolute truth go look for yourself before passing judgment on a lot of people.
    You're wrong. There has been overwhelming proof that Teapartiers are complete and utter idiots.
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Curl Neophyte Posts: 4,940Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    My husband got offended that Obama made a "snarky" remark about lowering the taxes and wanting the Tea Partiers to thank him.
    I thought it was funny.

    I still don't understand why the outrage now? Bush was re-elected for his second term-- everyone seemed okay.
    He gave tax cuts to his rich buddies-- everyone seemed okay.
    People are so over-reacting with Obama, thinking he will outlaw guns/fishing (I kid you not about the fishing part), that he will turn us into a socialist nation.
    If it isn't racism, what is it?
    Again, I know many probably aren't racist, but I think they're feeding off the energy from the racists...if that makes sense. It's the herd mentality.

    I really want to believe in the goodness of people and that we have advanced as a society. I want to believe that my hubby and some of my friends are not idiots. I want to think that we can agree to disagree and that even if I don't agree, they really have had some deep thought into this. I just don't see it.
    I love my husband, but his exteme conservatism in the past 2 years is a little disturbing to me. He was moderate-right when we met. I am witnessing him being brainwashed by FOX news. I've told him my concerns. He doesn't agree with me.
    FOX news is oozing with emotionalism, illogical fallacies, misrepresenting (only saying half of the story is sometimes more of a lie than just making up a story). I am repulsed by Glenn Beck. He's the worst of them all.

    I just don't understand. I feel like maybe I'm missing something here. Maybe I'm being illogical, maybe I'm only getting half of the story. I'm doubting myself, because this just doesn't make sense how some well-meaning, average to intelligent, non-racist (or blind to racism) people can think this is a good cause and can listen to Glenn Beck and think that overall he is telling the truth.
    I want to understand this.
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  • sew and sewsew and sew Posts: 3,443Registered Users
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    I just don't understand. I feel like maybe I'm missing something here. Maybe I'm being illogical, maybe I'm only getting half of the story. I'm doubting myself, because this just doesn't make sense how some well-meaning, average to intelligent, non-racist (or blind to racism) people can think this is a good cause and can listen to Glenn Beck and think that overall he is telling the truth.
    I want to understand this.

    You sound genuinely frustrated and open minded so I feel compelled to offer that I'll attempt to shed some light, if possible...if there is some to be shed.

    If you can think of the main stances/rationales he has that bug you, I can try to tap into what the reasoning may be. I get the sense your husband and I may agree down some major lines.
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  • tendrillytendrilly Posts: 183Registered Users
    I don't like taxes either, but I do think our government should provide certain services, like universal healthcare, like accessible college for all, etc., and that stuff needs to be paid for. Other countries do it...without bankrupting their taxpayers. Why can't we do it without making our deficit into horrifying digits?

    Ah, but there's the rub. It does eventually bankrupt the country.

    That is why Greece is at the brink of financial collapse. Other European countries are in trouble as well, though I haven't memorized the list (Spain, for one, is another country in financial crisis...) France's President Sarkozy is advocating raising the retirement age from 60 to 62 -- as a first step only, since that alone will not solve the problem -- to keep the government from going bankrupt. (They also get a month off for vacation, etc.) France simply cannot afford to keep giving such lavish pensions to their citizenry. In response, destructive, violent protesters fill the streets, because the French have been conditioned under the socialist system there to think it their right, future financial collapse of their country be damned.

    So, all we have to do is look around and see that these kinds of socialist/redistributionist/social justice/leftist/whatever-you-want-to-call-them economic policies do not work. Having discovered that these policies fail, Europe is now trending away from them, while President Obama and the Democrats are trying to take us in that very direction. I recently read somewhere an analogy of this: Europeans are fleeing a burning building, while Democrats are running into it, trying to drag Americans in there with them.

    As Margaret Thatcher is quoted as saying, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
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  • tendrillytendrilly Posts: 183Registered Users
    Boomygrrl wrote: »
    My husband got offended that Obama made a "snarky" remark about lowering the taxes and wanting the Tea Partiers to thank him.
    I thought it was funny.

    I still don't understand why the outrage now? Bush was re-elected for his second term-- everyone seemed okay.
    He gave tax cuts to his rich buddies-- everyone seemed okay.

    Actually, he lowered the tax rates for ALL brackets. The thing most people don't realize is that U.S. tax policy actually became more progressive under Bush.

    Here's a quote from a Detroit News article back in 2004:

    "The CBO [nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office] report shows how 2004 income tax rates have dropped for everyone compared with tax laws in force in 2000.

    The report also shows that Bush’s tax cuts have been “progressive” — that is, they have shifted the share of the overall federal income tax burden toward the wealthy and away from lower-income earners. Without the Bush tax cuts, the highest-earning 20 percent of households this year would have paid 78.4 percent of all federal income taxes. Now, after the Bush tax cutes, their share of the burden has risen to 82.1 percent. Every other group now pays a smaller share of the total income tax burden
    ."

    Also -- to make a different point, by not renewing the Bush tax cuts, President Obama and the Democrats are giving us all a big tax increase starting in January. Yes, you can say they just wanted it for the middle class, but if you don't give it to everyone (including employers, and sorry, but that might include some people who make more money than we do), then you are not going to grow the economy. That's just economic fact.
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    tendrilly wrote: »
    I don't like taxes either, but I do think our government should provide certain services, like universal healthcare, like accessible college for all, etc., and that stuff needs to be paid for. Other countries do it...without bankrupting their taxpayers. Why can't we do it without making our deficit into horrifying digits?

    Ah, but there's the rub. It does eventually bankrupt the country.

    That is why Greece is at the brink of financial collapse. Other European countries are in trouble as well, though I haven't memorized the list (Spain, for one, is another country in financial crisis...) France's President Sarkozy is advocating raising the retirement age from 60 to 62 -- as a first step only, since that alone will not solve the problem -- to keep the government from going bankrupt. (They also get a month off for vacation, etc.) France simply cannot afford to keep giving such lavish pensions to their citizenry. In response, destructive, violent protesters fill the streets, because the French have been conditioned under the socialist system there to think it their right, future financial collapse of their country be damned.

    So, all we have to do is look around and see that these kinds of socialist/redistributionist/social justice/leftist/whatever-you-want-to-call-them economic policies do not work. Having discovered that these policies fail, Europe is now trending away from them, while President Obama and the Democrats are trying to take us in that very direction. I recently read somewhere an analogy of this: Europeans are fleeing a burning building, while Democrats are running into it, trying to drag Americans in there with them.

    As Margaret Thatcher is quoted as saying, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."


    Wow...you are an EXCELLENT Faux News Student. You've learned ALL the talking points and right-wing lies and can recite them to perfection. Good job.
  • GretchenGretchen Administrator Posts: 10,840Moderators Curl Virtuoso
    tendrilly wrote: »
    I don't like taxes either, but I do think our government should provide certain services, like universal healthcare, like accessible college for all, etc., and that stuff needs to be paid for. Other countries do it...without bankrupting their taxpayers. Why can't we do it without making our deficit into horrifying digits?

    Ah, but there's the rub. It does eventually bankrupt the country.

    That is why Greece is at the brink of financial collapse. Other European countries are in trouble as well, though I haven't memorized the list (Spain, for one, is another country in financial crisis...) France's President Sarkozy is advocating raising the retirement age from 60 to 62 -- as a first step only, since that alone will not solve the problem -- to keep the government from going bankrupt. (They also get a month off for vacation, etc.) France simply cannot afford to keep giving such lavish pensions to their citizenry. In response, destructive, violent protesters fill the streets, because the French have been conditioned under the socialist system there to think it their right, future financial collapse of their country be damned.

    So, all we have to do is look around and see that these kinds of socialist/redistributionist/social justice/leftist/whatever-you-want-to-call-them economic policies do not work. Having discovered that these policies fail, Europe is now trending away from them, while President Obama and the Democrats are trying to take us in that very direction. I recently read somewhere an analogy of this: Europeans are fleeing a burning building, while Democrats are running into it, trying to drag Americans in there with them.

    As Margaret Thatcher is quoted as saying, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."


    Wow...you are an EXCELLENT Faux News Student. You've learned ALL the talking points and right-wing lies and can recite them to perfection. Good job.

    Hey, RCW. Moderate your tone, please. No need to be snotty.

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  • tendrillytendrilly Posts: 183Registered Users

    Wow...you are an EXCELLENT Faux News Student. You've learned ALL the talking points and right-wing lies and can recite them to perfection. Good job.

    um...yeah.

    You probably thought that was a devastating response, RedCatWaves. But I can think of a couple of reasons, just off the top of my head, why it's not:

    1) When you're presented with an argument or facts that are inconvenient for you, that run contrary to your political beliefs, you immediately resort to snide, personal attacks and mockery. The fact that you cannot respond with facts and your own reasoning tells me just how weak your argument is.

    2) These stories about the financial demise of Greece, Spain, France, etc., have been all over the news for months. On all kinds of news outlets. Where are you getting your news? I am not the one here who is uninformed. Here are some terms that you can Google to get you started:

    France Sarkozy retirement age
    Greece financial crisis
    Spain financial crisis

    Ireland and Portugal too. I'm not an economist, and there may be some contagion from Greece which exacerbates the problem for some of these other countries, but the fact is that you cannot keep taking on endless debt if you want to run your country successfully. England is cutting back on its budget, too. The writing is on the wall that the cradle-to-grave nanny state does not hold up over time.

    Looking around at what is working and what is not working in other countries can give us valuable information, helping us in making decisions here in the U.S. (just another example: national health care in Canada and England). Before we try to make our country a socialist paradise, doesn't it seem wise to first look around at currently socialist economies and ask, "How is this working out for them?" The American left seems oddly uninterested in doing this. Why is that?
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  • morrighumorrighu Posts: 707Registered Users
    Actually, if you look really closely, you'll notice that your local tea bagger rally isn't really "all that". Especially if you watch Fox, you can catch them occasionally doing a distance shot that shows that outside the initial cluster of people who are "front and center", there really isn't a lot going on at the tea bagger rallies. When the local news station has to interview the same person (here anyway) over and over bc none of the other local tea baggers are fit for prime time TV, you kinda start to catch on that they're trying to make them bigger than they really are.

    As for Sarah Palin, I don't know anyone on either side of the fence that likes her. She tried to force her daughter to get married for her own political reasons. She's lugging around a kid that she clearly resents and using him to play for sympathy.

    She's not real bright, IMHO because she bashes Obama for using a teleprompter but gets busted writing on her palm. Hmmm.... I can use some modern technology or I can do something I don't think any of us have done since like what... maybe 3rd grade.

    She flat out lied about the "Death Panels". Rather than letting people make decisions about the disposal of their assets, DNR's, and other things in an informed and orderly way well in advance of needing them, she freaks people out by squealing about "Death Panels". Even though I'm an only child, I will inherit nothing from my parents. My father's care has burned through their savings. The State of Texas now owns their house bc of it. My mother, who is 11 years younger than my father, is allowed to continue to live there under a very specific set of conditions. For example, if she ever has to be in the hospital for more than 30 days, she will loose the house.

    Because they are married, all of her retirement savings have had to be spent on his care in order for them to qualify for any kind of assistance. After working almost her entire life, my mother gets $495/mo from Social Security. My father gets about $3000 as his military pension so they're doing ok now.

    When he dies my mother will only be entitled to about $1200 of his military pension. That means she's going to have to live on $1700/mo. That's about what you might make working at Wal-Mart. But instead of having a place to go to talk about how to prepare for being on Medicare or Medicaid or to be able to find out what kinds of assistance he might qualify for, my mother has to navigate this maze of government programs by herself with some assistance from the VFW post and a couple of friends who are in similar situations. Thanks for nothing, Sara Palin.
  • susancnwsusancnw Curl Novice Posts: 1,374Registered Users Curl Novice
    Morrighu--SaraH Palin has nothing to do with the state of Texas owning your parents' home, etc. I am so sorry your mom is in that situation. My father's illness also ate up their savings. Has your mom/dad/you looked into the extra benefits that Vets can receive for healthcare? They are hard to track down, but if you will get in touch with the VA and find someone to be an advocate for you, it will help. You can also PM me and I will get the info for you from a friend of mine who is in the insurance industry. She's been such a huge help for my mom and my sister as well as some other friends.

    You bash Sarah Palin for writing a few notes on her hand. Do you not see the difference between notes on your hand and two teleprompters that accompany him everywhere? He took them to a talk with kindergardeners and uses them in staff meetings. And if you listen to him speak off-prompter, you realize that he is much better off if he sticks to the script. Questions to him are pre-screened and answered as he cannot be trusted off the cuff. Remember Joe the Plumber?

    Can we please have a bit more decorum? I find the term 'tea bagger' very offensive. Of course, if ya'll insist on using it, I will start using the terms, leftwing loon or perhaps tinfoil hat-wearing moonbats to describe the Democrats/liberals/progressives or whatever their name du jour is.

    Yeah, Tea Party supporter here (like RCW hadn't figured that one out already ;D) And no, the Republican party isn't behind it. If you'd seen the kerfluffle (don't you live that word?) here in Colorado over it. The Reps didn't get their hand-picked candidate, the Tea Party candidate won the nomination and he was a disaster. I didn't choose sides until I did my own research (incidentally, the Republican party didn't even come by my house). He should have done the right thing and withdrawn and endorsed someone else. Instead, he stuck it out til the end and split the vote so we are stuck with Denver and Boulder's choice, John Hickenlooper, or Ritter Redux. I am VERY happy to say that my representative Betsy Markey was tossed out on her ear after her first term. I dropped a packing box by her office today as I promised to do when I called and told her that I would not be happy with a 'yes' vote on the health care bill.

    And before anyone goes off, I have been unemployed/underemployed for 18 months. Right now I have 2 part time jobs and have submitted an application for a third one, & my oldest daughter has had to put off college for a year. Not happy about it, but that is the way it is. Our business is also way down as this administration has taken direct aim at our target clientele...upper end for our custom cabinetry business. We're taking any job that comes along.

    Obama is NOT black, he is not white, he is biracial. Big deal. Lots of people in the US are. He had the advantage of a multi-cultural background. The US, Indonesia, back to Hawaii...but for some reason, his experiences like that served to make him very critical of the US and the advantages here. Be nice if he actually appreciated what he has achieved here instead of acting like a sulky, petulant child.

    Pity that Harry Reid didn't get tossed out. I'm rather curious about that one. According to an AP article I read, folks in his state aren't particularly fond of him either, NV has the highest unemployment and home foreclosure rate in the nation...and they put that ****** BACK in DC? Wow....makes me wonder how that one was pulled off.
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  • mandatoryfunmandatoryfun Posts: 878Registered Users
    susancnw wrote: »
    Pity that Harry Reid didn't get tossed out. I'm rather curious about that one. According to an AP article I read, folks in his state aren't particularly fond of him either, NV has the highest unemployment and home foreclosure rate in the nation...and they put that ****** BACK in DC? Wow....makes me wonder how that one was pulled off.

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